The Truth About Diacetyl

Welcome to this week’s installment of our Knowledge is Power blog series. Last week we talked about what’s in E-Juice and its safety. Originally the Diacetyl information was going to be included in the E-Juice – What’s Inside blog edition, but in researching this topic, it became so in depth that we felt it was important to address this subject specifically. I would like to mention that while there are multiple news articles discussing this topic, each of the articles I read referenced the studies and articles I will share with you below. Thank you for joining us this week as we discuss Diacetyl and e-juice.

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Wisegeek 1 gives this definition of diacetyl:

 A naturally occurring chemical that is produced as a byproduct of yeast during the fermentation process. Used in a wide variety of food products, it is best known as a flavoring in microwave buttered popcorn. Most recently, diacetyl has earned a bad name for being the probable cause of several popcorn factory workers developing what has been dubbed ‘popcorn lung’, or bronchiolitis. This is a rare and serious fixed obstructive lung disease.

In the 1990’s, factory workers in a microwave popcorn plant contracted bronchiolitis, also known as ‘popcorn lung’. It was generally believed that this was the result of inhaling a powdered form of diacetyl, in very high concentrations, which is used in the butter flavoring for the popcorn.

While it is generally believed that the cause of popcorn lung was inhalation of powdered diacetyl, this has yet to be proven, as we will see shortly in the information provided by the CDC. It is important to note that the FDA has posted the following statement about the consumption of diacetyl on their website 2,

Diacetyl is added to some foods for flavoring purposes. It is metabolized in mammals, is of low acute toxicity, and the no-adverse-effect level is estimated to be less than .3mg. There is no evidence on the available information on diacetyl that demonstrates or suggests reasonable grounds to suspect a hazard to the public when they are used at levels that are now current or that may reasonably be expected in the future.

The FDA has listed Diacetyl on their Generally Regarded as Safe (GRAS) list of food additive products, yet they have not made a statement regarding the safety of the inhalation of diacetyl in vapor form. As mentioned above, it hasn’t been proven that diacetyl was the cause of the popcorn-lung, as seen by the article published by the CDC 3 to address their views on diacetyl titled Flavorings-Related Lung Disease in which they state

Diacetyl is a chemical that was found to be a prominent volatile constituent in butter flavoring and air at the microwave popcorn plant initially investigated. Workers in microwave popcorn manufacturing are exposed to many materials besides diacetyl. Thus, initial studies in a total of 6 microwave popcorn plants were not able to definitely determine if diacetyl exposure contributed to lung disease or was a marker for other hazardous substances that contributed to disease. Current evidence, however, points to diacetyl as one agent that can cause flavorings-related lung disease. While other flavoring ingredients may also play a role.

Meaning, while they cannot prove that diacetyl was the cause of the disease, they do consider it a primary area of concern. The diacetyl inhaled by these factory workers was in powder form, used to add a buttery flavor to the microwave popcorn they were producing. However, when vaping there is obviously no powder being inhaled, so does this concern relate to vaping?

It may not be common knowledge, but diacetyl is a common ingredient in tobacco, and has been for over 50 years. Meaning, those who have been smoking cigarettes, have been inhaling diacetyl this whole time. The Critical Reviews in Toxicology 4 group conducted a study simply titled Diacetyl where they concluded,

 Diacetyl exposures from cigarette smoking far exceeded occupational exposures for most food/flavoring workers. This suggests that previous claims of a significant exposure-response relationship between diacetyl inhalation and respiratory disease in food/flavoring workers were confounded. Further, smoking has not been shown to be a risk factor for bronchiolitis (popcorn lung).

To summarize their findings, they found that the levels of diacetyl in tobacco were significantly higher than those found in the factories where the popcorn lung was contracted, bringing into question the diacetyl as the cause of the condition. Further, they found that smoking cigarettes, regardless of the higher levels of diacetyl has not been shown to cause popcorn lung. Looking at e-juice in relation to tobacco levels of diacetyl the Nicotine & Tobacco Research 5 group conducted a study Evaluation of Electronic Cigarette Liquids and published these results, “The purpose of this study was to evaluate sweet-flavoured electronic cigarette (EC) liquids for the presence of diacetyl (DA). DA was found in 74.2% of the samples. They were lower than the strict safety limits for occupational exposure and 110 times lower compared to smoking respectively.” This tells us first, that there is diacetyl in analog cigarettes at 110 times higher levels than those found in the e-juices they studied. Secondly this tells us the amounts they found in the e-juice were within the safety limits of exposure.

To summarize, studies like those conducted above show that there is a significantly higher amount of diacetyl exposure from smoking than there is in the factories where the production workers got sick, presumably (but not proven to be) due to exposure to diacetyl inhalation. There are also no documented cases of popcorn-lung being developed from smoking. That being said, when you buy from Mt Baker Vapor we use the highest quality, finest ingredients from right here in the US, which means we can make sure that they are all diacetyl free. We choose not to purchase from suppliers that use it in their flavoring.

As always, I encourage everyone to educate themselves. Read the studies and information listed in the references below, and learn more about the data surrounding the subject of diacetyl. Come back next week when we look at the subject of Nicotine absorption levels and how they are affected by what we use to vape, and the way we vape. Until then, we look forward to your questions and comments. Vape on!

Written by: Michelle Harnden

 

  1. Wisegeek “What is Diacetyl
  2. FDA “Diacetyl”
  3. CDC “Flavorings-Related Lung Disease”
  4. Critical Reviews in Toxicology “Diacetyl
  5. Nicotine & Tobacco Research “Evaluation of electronic cigarette liquids

12/11/15 Revision:

A recent article in the Harvard Gazette presented a new study related to Diacetyl in e-juice. You can read that entire study here: http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/15-10185./

Vaping researcher Dr. Konstantinos Farsalinos has analyzed the findings of this study, and presents his own analysis here: http://www.ecigarette-research.org/research/index.php/whats-new/whatsnew-2015/236-da2

Tim Mechling
Tim is Mt Baker Vapor's resident creative weirdo. He writes, composes music, draws, designs, produces podcasts, investigates, and blows the trumpet for the Common Man.

Author: Tim Mechling

Tim is Mt Baker Vapor's resident creative weirdo. He writes, composes music, draws, designs, produces podcasts, investigates, and blows the trumpet for the Common Man.

212 thoughts on “The Truth About Diacetyl”

  1. Thanks for the post, I always like to know what goes into my body. Do you use diacetyl substitutes acetoin and acetyl propionyl in your juice?

    1. Wow! Haha trying to push a product that hard, I mean I vape and I know the e juice and vaping industry doesn’t like a bunch of bogus disclaimers or the government trying to get involved. But to say Diacetyl isn’t harmful because the savory flavors with Diacetyl in it taste great and use outed information to do so, isn’t cool to your readers. I’m not knocking you, but when you want to prove a point in life we tend to be a little closed minded. I hope you allow this to stay posted because the truth is, if we hide information or tweak it in our favor the vaping industry becomes as bad as the tabaco industry. The tabaco industry never was out to prove smoking to be healthy, in one of their 1980 deposition’s it clearly stated in their strategy guidelines that “all the tabaco industry (we) have to do is cause enough doubt in the people’s minds, that smoking is ok”. They were just trying to deceive us from the 2000 plus chemicals that will cause cancer with flashy advertisements, endorsed celebs, and DOUBT. Let’s be better than them, not worse, if something’s potentially bad, just say it is, it should be up to the consumer to decide. And technically it should be up to the consumer to do their own research however, the typical vape industry customer, will likely never do that. So it’s up to the few that will. Ok well now that moral standards have been set and hopefully an assumption to be better than the tabaco industry. Which is not directed at your website, but anyone out there that claims vaping will cause no harm at all, without the long term effects known of chemicals as well as completely disregarding nicotine effects like gum disease mouth and throats cancer and eary onset to Alzheimer’s. Haha I can’t believe I’m saying this with a vape in my hand, but hey we all know why we re here, those are rare and I’m not holding a cigarette, which is guaranteed to kill me early. Now, let me inform you the findings of the FDA saying Diacetyl was not harmful was a study done in 1980 regulated by Nixon, since then the chemical has been banned in all food products far before vaping come along. So why back then was it ok and not now? Has the research changed? Yes and no, the science hasn’t, but the publicity of Diacetyl did and so the amount of third party findings finally came out changing the FDA’s ban, and here’s what I mean. The research provided to the FDA about Diacetyl was done by the corn and popcorn industry themselves. Nothing surprising about that, all the big food industries have their own labs that they outsource to for scientific studies to show something is healthy even if its not, before handing it over to the FDA. The FDA doesn’t have labs nor do they do their own testing. They simply require others do. And simply take those findings and review them and publish them. If you think the studies were going to say Diacetyl was harmful and caused ‘popcorn lung’ back then with peoples lives at stake, millions in lawsuits, and possible jail time if proved they knew about it before hand and chose to ignore to make more money, your crazy! When ever in the last 30 or 40 years have you seen big farm, dairy, or meat industries go to jail or even pay out for harm they have done? It doesn’t happen because they lobbied and created laws against it, like the cheeseburger law. And it didn’t happen hear either. The truth about Diacetyl, it has been independent tested and third peer reviewed and it is not good at all for you. In fact it is one of the listed chemicals the FDA has banned for food products and recommends against using in flavor for e juice unless further scientific studies and clinical testing can be done to prove it is not harmful. Which obviously can’t be done, along with 30 plus other chemicals that are harmful or potentially could be that are being used to flavor our juices. That’s why the vaping. Industry doesn’t want the FDA involved, and rightly so, the tabaco industry is still putting out cigarettes with thousands of chemicals causing deaths everyday and they aren’t required to have it approved by the FDA. Anyways, here’s the link https://www.fda.gov/downloads/tobaccoproducts/labeling/rulesregulationsguidance/ucm499352.pdf
      To see all vaping requirements, go to page 29. Although this is just a draft, not for implementation, you can believe the tabaco industry in some way is behind this and actually paid big money to hopefully in the end make our e juice healthier for us. Also the ban on Diacetyl, there is a lot of info on no why on several FDA and NTIS sites as well as several dozen third party, non industry funded tests, showing its toxicity and harmful agents in food, let alone vaping. But the simplest one is https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/fcn/fcnNavigation.cfm?filter=Diacetyl+&sortColumn=&rpt=eafuslisting
      That requires the least amount of reading… lol… I hope this at least in our ages us to truly inform ourselves and others and be better than our tabaco predecessors. Just remember everyone has an agenda, but being a vapor, non retailer, hypochondriac, with an IQ of 164, my only agenda is to help others. After my wife has been diagnosed with cancer a year ago at age 25, my world view changed, and I want to help others understand the real truths in this world so they can perpetuate the movement.

  2. Hi, Michelle! For whatever reason, I am unable to see the comments on this blog so if I am asking something that has already been asked, I apologize! I know you do not employ diacetyl in your juices. But, do you use acetyl propionyl or any other acetoins in the flavoring? Curious to know if you use butyric acid, either? If you can help me, I would greatly appreciate it! Thank you, Michelle! 🙂 🙂

  3. Michelle, I have a question..
    What are the steps for testing OR how do you test for
    Diacetyl in an e/cigg juice/flavor?
    Thankyou, Judy

  4. 2) so then is it best to ask each company if they know if they companies they order from orders from companies that use Diacetly as one of their ingraidents?

  5. It’s really a matter of trust with the compaine’s you order from.. some will be forth coming and just say, they aren’t sure if the flavors they sell include it, some will out right tell you what you want to hear, some will seek an answer it out. I am the owner of my own vape store in Ga. I am seeking answers as well.

  6. I think when you smoke a cigarette the combustion process burns the diacetyl up.
    That’s why vaping it is a concern. no combustion.

    1. This is a hotly debated topic. Unfortunately, not all the science is in. Experts have confirmed that diacetyl is, in fact, present in the smoke produced by cigarettes.

      1. Technically, e liquid is heated to the point of atomization, which means dispersed into fine particles or mist. Combustion is a high-temperature exothermic redox chemical reaction between a fuel and an oxidant, usually atmospheric oxygen, that produces oxidized, often gaseous mixture termed as smoke. It’s literally the difference between smoking and vaping. Let me know if you have any more questions.

  7. So, the company’s official response is that, well, our vendors tells us that they don’t use diacetyl substitutes such as acetoin and acetyl propionyl in our flavorings. That is an unacceptable response. Why don’t you test your own products before marketing them to the public? Mark my words, this will end in industry-wide class action lawsuits in the years to come. The level of apparent ignorance (willful or not) by ejuice manufacturers on this issue is simply astonishing.

    1. We understand your concerns and, in the interest of full disclosure, we are currently having our flavors tested to ensure quality and consistency throughout the manufacturing process. Currently there is no timeline for completion, but it is something we are working on.

  8. Yeah I’m still pretty fresh on the vape scene… I’m so happy along with my kids being extremely happy that I have finally quit butts after 20+ plus years, all due to stumbling across some close friends and family that have also had much success quitting butts by vaping… But now after finding out about this… has me concerned .. I’m a little bummed tho because I was so happy to have found some great juice at a great price .. Now knowing this could possibly be hazardous, I now am looking for vendors that guarantee that there is none of this in their products

  9. Saying that these chemicals aren’t present in the juice can be accurate, however it’s only when turned to vapour that some of these harmful vapours are produced. You may still be inhaling it even if it’s not IN the juice!

  10. Thank you Michelle, for being one of the few voices of reason. This issue is completely over-hyped, and based on misinformation and paranoia. Did any of you worry-wort commentators actually read the article?

    The conclusion that diacetyl was harmful was based on the ‘popcorn lung’ theory- factory workers inhaling TONS of POWDERED diacetyl for years. If you inhaled powdered pretty much ANYTHING many hours a week for decades, it would probably cause a problem. On top of that, do you think that was the only thing they were inhaling there?

    The article also states that it is 110 times lower in ejuice compared to cigarrettes, again reaffirming that vaping is still at least 95-99% safer than smoking. You are getting more junk in your lungs driving through 5 minutes of traffic than vaping one of these ‘dangerous’ diacetyl-laden ejuices all day.

    Sure we all want to know with 100% accuracy that every tiny little component of every single flavoring is going to be completely harmless for us, no matter how minuscule and trivial the amount is, but I smell a red herring here…

  11. Diacetyl is not just found in creams and butters as most ppl think. Diacetyl is naturally in Fruits such as strawberries and many others so to completely avoid it would be kind of hard. I vape 100 percent vg 3 MG nice, no flavor. This way I know I’m not inhaling any diacetyl

  12. Hi,
    I got hold some MBV e liquids in my country, Malaysia. Can you tell me if they are produced from the your US factory?
    Thank you.

    1. Everything we make is produced in the USA at our Mesa, Arizona facility. Could you possibly post a photo of the juice bottles for us to see? We do ship almost anywhere in the world, but we will need some more information to be able to confirm if it is our juice or not.

  13. I am having a hard time believing testing is taking place. The first post stating the juice will be tested is from many many months ago, but the answer is still “we are testing, don’t worry”.

    As a customer, that is unacceptable. I will not use or purchase your product until you have those results.

    I will not risk my health based on your promises, sorry.

    1. We understand your frustrations and are moving as quickly as possible to bring these answers to our customers. In the meantime we are truly sorry for the delay and hope to continue serving your vaping needs in the future.

  14. So you acknowledge the questioned ingredient is in Tabbaco and regular cigarettes , well we know they cause lung disease. So vaping and e cigs do also. Quit trying to justify their harm

  15. Sorry, but your word it’s safe is worthless given your livelihood is through the sale of this chemical. Of course your “truth” is that it’s fine, that version is the version that keeps you from being homeless.

    1. This is a completely understandable point, but we are simply presenting the information we have researched. As always, it is up to you, the consumer, to make an educated decision based on the available information.

  16. Thank you so much for this write up and fielding this line of questioning and responses. I think you really put things in perspective on this issue and it is great to know that these chemicals are not found in MBV juice. We will all be looking forward to the results of the independent testing and more frequent 20% Off coupons for bulk orders. 🙂

  17. Can you list some of the companies that make juices that are free of these? For instance I have some juices from Moon Mountain, Clouds of Icarus, Blue Label and Red Beard’s Reserve.

  18. Hi there respective representative of mtbakervapor.com, I was wondering if you all would be so kind as to reveal the chemical compositions of all of your vape flavors (without revealing the proportions, of course, for fear of the “recipe” being stolen) and then submitting it to an unbiased third party for verification?

    Do you all feel comfortable with a proposition like this?

  19. When you own/run your own company, your livelihood and the livelihood of others depends on everything you do. To all the comments accusing the staff of MBV of lying, I really and truly believe that they would not do that, simply because of the consequences that could result. Thank you, MBV, for the testing, and for probably paying more to suppliers for ingredients you can trust. This is why I will continue to buy only from MBV. I walked in to my local vape shop and asked these questions, and nobody could answer them.

  20. Testing for diacytl is a costly process, and only a small percentage of e-juice companies can afford to have dozens of flavors individually tested. That’s not to say we shouldn’t all expect it, but it’s not required by law (yet) so many companies avoid expensive independent lab testing.

    Many companies claim that their products are “diacytl-free”, but it’s impossible to know without independent lab tests. Even if a company is using so-called “diacytl-free” ingredients, many use acetyl propionyl instead, which is virtually identical to diacetyl.

    In my opinion, worrying about diacytl is kind of pointless. It may pose a tiny risk, but there’s significantly more diacytl in traditional tobacco smoke. How many smokers have obtained popcorn lung over the decades??? ZERO!

    You can find additional info here: http://www.cigbuyer.com/the-fuss-about-diacetyl-in-e-cigarettes/

    1. Yes, testing is a costly and timely process. And don’t forget about money and time spent verifying test results. With 150+ flavors it is a lengthy process indeed. Thanks for sharing this link.

  21. Seriously? And you trust your suppliers -WHY? Now you just sound like Big Tobacco. Denying science because you cannot bear to walk away from the money. I quit cigs 6 weeks ago and have used an ecig, which made me cough, so I true a different one. Same thing. Ecig need to go away right along with Big Tobacco. Can’t wait to watch all of you being sued when your users fall ill. Get the popcorn (pun intended)

    1. Our suppliers have told us the flavorings we purchase are diacetyl free. Obviously there is liability for both parties involved here, but we’d like to think we can trust the people we do business with. We are working on testing our flavors and verifying the results. Coughing is not uncommon amongst ecig users, especially after recently quitting cigarettes, your body is still coughing up all the residue from smoking. Plenty of customers have been vaping us since the beginning and there have been no reported health issues as of yet. We’re sorry you think we need to go away, but as long as you’re not smoking we’re happy.

    2. If anyone does the smallest level of research they will find exactly what MBV has already cited. Your the one denying the science. I feel perfectly safe vaping MBVs flavors because of their transparency and willingness to discuss this topic even knowing that doubters and negative comments could possibly drive away business. If money was the only thing on their mind they would have swept the discussion under the rug.

    3. Such a bitter person you seem to be. I happy for you quitting. I do not smoke or vape yet the wisdom as opposed to bitterness you show in waiting for people to be sued is uncalled for. No one is twisting your arm to put anything in your body, so please the f up until you able to be nice and have gotten your lack of nicotine in check. Peace

  22. What’s important is that vapor’s and future vapor’s seek out the brands that can provide ECTA Certification for their liquid. Also, manufacturing that is verified clean-room produced.

    ECTA standards set the appropriate levels of non-detection and Limit of Quantification (LOQ). In the case of Diacetyl, The Limit of Quantification (LOQ) is 2.63 ug/ml w/ a minimum detection limit of .300 ug/ml.

    Any liquid worth its glycerin will have these certifications and they should have been provided by an independent 3rd party laboratory that is ECTA Certified for testing.

    I am the CEO of The Steam Co., a CT based manufacturer of E-Liquid and our flavors are all <LOQ. We manufacture in a Calss 800 Clean-Room. There are not many of us who can make this claim. Our top sellers in our reserve e-liquid line are probably some of the cleanest and safest in the entire global market.

    I am happy to answer questions as a manufacturer and assist in people building a knowledge base in order to ensure they are safe from harms way when it comes to making proper choices.

  23. What I find most interesting is that people (users) search for a reason to justify continuing their addictions, rather than quitting them. Back when cigarettes were popular, they were marketed as safe for decades before proof came out. E-cigs are now advertised as safer, but without proof because they came out long before everything was thoroughly tested. It’s merely history repeating itself. If you’re all so concerned about what you put in your body, as many of you say, then you’d find a way to quit altogether. My boyfriend smoked 3 packs a day for 25 years and quit. In the meantime, vaping is on the increase in minors due to heavy marketing, sweet flavors, and friends and family influence. Only time will tell, after the damage has been done. Since its not FDA approved, good luck to those who think they can sue. You accept risk when you use something not approved. Take responsibility for your own choices. Chew on that, all of you. Flame away, if you wish.

    1. I am a huge advocate for responsible vaping, and of course, vaping at your own risk. You bring up a great point, one that I find myself repeating often. If you’re truly worried about the health risks then it’s better to not vape (and definitely not smoke) at all. You can make the claim that vaping is healthier than cigarettes, but really it is not healthy to be inhaling anything other than just plain old fresh air. Putting anything foreign into your body will pose a health risk. I find that a lot of people are missing the bigger picture when it comes to vaping, which has always been and should always be to get yourself off of nicotine altogether and eventually put the vape down.

      1. I like that you said that. I’ve said the exact same thing to people who want to rip on me for vaping. The end goal is to be breathing only fresh air (or as fresh as I can get living in New Jersey). I’ve been buying from MBV and was lead to this article from a different and seemingly more objective article about the dangers of diacetyl. It’s good to know that you guys have addressed this as I was researching so I could contact you with questions about it but you already covered it. Sorry you have to respond professionally to so many idiots who don’t understand that the most you can do is take what you’re told at face value. It’s something we all do with the products we ingest yet these people seem to think you can do more.

  24. Wait, you guys mean to tell me there’s misguided fear over a chemical, your product doesn’t contain said chemical, and instead of marketing the fear into increased sales for your product, you attempt to destroy it with facts and reason?

    I may have to buy from you now

  25. High quality e-liquids do not contain Diacetyl…buy from places that use high quality non-Diacetyl e-liquids, such as High Desert Vapes. These guys are amazing; they sell high quality non-Diacetyl juices and have the greatest customer service…don’t be fooled by these hyped reports, just buy high quality e-juices that do not contain these harmful chemicals from quality companies.

    1. We do not allow links to other websites on our blog so your comment has been edited to remove the url. We encourage vapers to make their own educated decision concerning which juices they vape.

    2. We are working to get test results out, and your patience is greatly appreciated. Currently we are relying on the word of our flavor providers who have told us the ingredients we purchase are free of diacetyl. We understand the community wants more than that and we are working to address those concerns.

  26. Bronchiolitis is inflammation of the bronchioles, what the study suggested this causes is bronchiolitis obliterans. Your article quotes bronchiolitis which can be caused by a number of things, basically anything that causes inflammation, bronchiolitis obliterans is different as it causes scaring of the tissues and denotes long term damage. Just fyi

  27. My husband and I have been vaping with your products for two years. I swear if I see one more ignorant uneducated post about popcorn lung my head will explode. Kool aid drinkers. My his stopped smoking through you and IndoorSmokers! He knew if he didn’t do something, he’d be as Chris said, taking his last breath with an exhale of cigarette smoke. Thank god he did switch as he has converted at least 4 of us. My doctor is refusing to prescribe a couple medications for me now because as he says I smoke! I argue and advocate every chance I get!! God I just detest the wil full ignorance!

    1. Thanks for your support over the last two years! Glad to know you were able to both quit smoking, that’s great to hear. It’s hard for some to see the differences between vaping and smoking, but maybe your doctor is refusing to prescribe you certain medications because of how they could react to nicotine in your system? Have you asked your doctor about this? Thanks for your support and best of luck to you in the future.

  28. I don’t understand their conclusion? They are saying that vapor contain DA is far above the safety levels? However in the article itself they are saying its lower than safety regulations for workers? Conclusions. DA and AP were found in a large proportion of sweet-flavoured EC liquids, with many of them exposing users to higher than safety levels. Their presence in EC liquids represents an avoidable risk. Proper measures should be taken by EC liquid manufacturers and flavouring suppliers to eliminate these hazards from the products, without necessarily limiting the availability of sweet flavours.

    A little bit of contradiction there……makes think they need to go back to the drawing board.

    1. Yes, there is a lot of misinformation out there adding to the confusion. We are working to get test results out, and your patience is greatly appreciated. Currently we are relying on the word of our flavor providers who have told us the ingredients we purchase are free of diacetyl. We understand the community wants more than that and we are working to address those concerns.

  29. Who is your “flavor providers” for sake of transparency? It’s much easier to investigate the source rather then relying on the old well they said it’s ok, and at your own risk responses.

    1. Unfortunately we are unable to release any information to the public about our flavor providers as our recipes are proprietary. Our MSDS (Manufacturers Declaration) from the manufacturer who produces the base flavor compounds that we use in our flavoring does not declare Diacetyl, Acetoin or Acetyl Propionyl, or other known variations thereof, in it’s construction. In the interest of full disclosure, we are currently having these flavors tested to ensure quality and consistency throughout the manufacturing process. As it stands, the flavor supplier who provides our flavoring base has not included Diacetyl, Acetyl Propionyl or Acetoin in the construction of this flavor.

      We value complete transparency with our customers and if, during the course of testing, we find any of these ingredients, we will ensure that our customers are notified and we will take the necessary measures to continue to provide safe and quality e liquids.

      We are working to get test results out, and your patience is greatly appreciated. Currently we are relying on the word of our flavor providers who have told us the ingredients we purchase are free of diacetyl. We understand the community wants more than that and we are working to address those concerns.

  30. Darrell,

    Where did you get your information that it was EC liquids used in the study? I read the NIH Harvard study, not an article about it, the actual study, and no where in the study did it mention manufacturers. They gave vague names for the juices, but no way to know from which specific juice companies they were testing. Perhaps you read a different article? If so, I would like to know which one, as I would like to read it myself.

    As far as I’m concerned, the lack of disclosure indicating which juices were used is troubling. There is no way to know the claimed quality of the juices used. Are the authors of the paper avid vapers? Or, are the completely clueless to the world of vaping? They claim some of the juices tested came from major manufacturers. What do they consider a major manufacturer? If the authors are limited in exposure, they may believe the juices sold at convenience stores to be major brands. As most know in the vaping community, this is not the case. As far as purchasing juice in B&M vape shops, at least in my area, one can go into 5 different shops and not find the same juice. So, again I ask, what do they consider a major manufacturer?

    As previously stated, inhaling anything that isn’t clean air is potentially harmful. I’ve been working to ween myself off vaping, going from 24 ml of nicotine down to 3 ml. One can’t do that with a cigarette. These days I find myself vaping less and less, and I hope to stop altogether soon. But, in the meantime, I would like to know what I’m putting in my body with some degree of certainty.

    Lastly, I’m torn on FDA regulation. It would be nice to know all that is in these juices. And, it would be nice to know all US made juices meet the same standard. I wouldn’t be too happy though if suddenly we couldn’t have the flavor diversity, if it so happens that e-juice falls in the same category as cigarettes, as far as the FDA is concerned. I also fear mandated regulations would cost too much for small business owners, causing many of the mom and pop shops to close. The current vape market is a shining example of free market capitalism. This is how capitalism is supposed to work. If only big businesses can afford the mandated testing, we may lose the small shops that many of us love. I used to have quite a few guitar stores in my area, some of them selling guitars one might not see often. Now, they have all been replaced by a single Guitar Center, which, despite its size, does not have the same diversity of product as 20 locally owned shops.

    I’ll stop ranting now.

    1. It would be great if these studies coming out actually stated what juices were tested and on what hardware. I too am interested in seeing this article in question. Lack of disclosure in this information is indeed troubling as most vapers know there is a wide variety of quality amongst e-juice brands. What companies can be considered a major manufacturer also remains a bit of a grey area. I couldn’t agree more with your point of “inhaling anything that isn’t clean air is potentially harmful”. If people are so concerned about the health risks, well they probably shouldn’t be smoking or vaping anything for that matter. It seems that the major issue, the big picture, the reason why we vape is over looked far too often. That being of course, to ween yourself off of nicotine altogether. I’ve successfully gone from 18mg down to 0 in less than a year and encourage all my friends and fellow vapers to do the same. The whole point of vaping is to beat this addiction and move on to a better lifestyle. I too fear the mandated regulations will effectively kill this industry, but agree that some standardization and regulations are needed to ensure the safety and well being of vapers every where. It’s definitely a chaotic time to be working in the vaping industry and we are eagerly awaiting answers to all of these issues.

  31. Swear there was a study out almost a year ago about da an a.c.. Now I believe it’s dated and those major suppliers have remedied the problematic flavors. Don’t want to hound somebody for a repaired blown taillight…
    Check youtube for a modern marvels clip on cigs, factory floor crap an all, vape happy, know who makes your stuff!
    I have started diluting with vg and tried adding a drop or 2 of convenience store stuff I still have around no doubt why now, Definately more to some brands than you want. My baker vaper isn’t competitive with my local shop, but it’s better than that for sure. Know some is from big tobacco or just the wrong part of the world for lazy quality control.

    1. There are a lot of companies that have remedied the flavors and that is great! We actually just watched a video on how cigarettes are made and were just left dumbfounded. Vape on!

  32. One must ask themselves, does the big tobacco companies use diacetyl? Was the research done on the e-cigs from Philip Morris and R.J. Reynolds? This is a scare tatic. Trust me, the big tobacco companies will fight to the death, (pardon my pun) to prove how wrong this “study” is. They have already lost BILLIONS of tobacco sales since Vaping began, they are on the bandwagon now with their OWN line of e-cigs and can NOT afford to loose their trusted users that have switched to e-cigs/vapers. A “study” is just that, a study. It’s not gospel, it’s not truth. A study takes years and years of research to even remotely have enough proof to show REAL statistics.

  33. I get the panic but did you panic when you inhaled 20 to 40 cigarettes a day along with tons and tons of other carcinogens?

    My point is let’s be honest and say its a very very very very very big difference with vaping and cigarettes. 99 percent better. Let’s not make a witch hunt out of this. If it wasn’t for vaping you would still be sucking on death stocks sticks. Vaping helped tons of us quit. If this new alleged finding bothers you then stop vaping. Everyone will die one day but I’m going with a mod in my hand.

    1. That’s the spirit! Vaping might be a young industry and lifestyle, but smoking is demonstrably devastating to families, economies, and individuals. I can’t believe people have the “stick with the devil you know” philosophy.

      Thanks for your support and advocacy!

  34. Unfortunately these studies are to scare e-cig users to return back to cigarettes due to so much lose in tobacco sales. Studies have proving that e-cig are a more healthier alternative and can provide proof that that is so. in this article it doesnt say how much of this chemical is in the liquid just says most flavored have this chemical the fact that cigarettes have more chemicals then what they are trying to scare into us, there have been no documented cases that e-cig cause this “popcorn lungs” this study was paid for by the tobacco companies and the FDA in attempts to put fear into people to raise their sales.

    1. We definitely need more well documented studies on this matter. Vaping and smoking are both personal choices that as adults we get to make, but we certainly don’t think anyone should be scared away from vaping by any means. Hoping for more transparency in these studies in the future.

  35. Ok, it has been a long time since you strarted testing.

    Where are the results ? We do not need ALL the 150 flavors results. Give us the many you ones you have completed.

    Thanks for being proactive. I will re-order as you provide some results.

    1. We are working to get our test results out and verified. Your patience is greatly appreciated. Currently we are relying on the word of our flavor providers who have told us the ingredients we purchase are free of diacetyl. We understand the community wants more than that and we are working to address those concerns.

    1. Diacetyl is a common additive for a buttery sweet flavor in a lot of foods and other products. Not sure if it would be used for fruits or not. We are currently working on getting test results verified, and your patience is greatly appreciated. Currently we are relying on the world of our flavor providers who have told us the ingredients we use are free of diacetyl. We understand the community wants more than that and we are working to address these concerns.

  36. Coughing using vape after quiting cigs.
    Please explain to the people that the amount of vg in the vape is responsible for the amount of “smoke”. Reducing the amount of vg reduces the amount of “smoke” and the throat burn. Pg makes the flavor better and has less smoke.
    I have bought vape liquid from a local cig. Store and it tastes like perfume! And gives me a bad headache. It appears to be “cheaper” to buy, because they are very small bottles. Comsumers get the wrong impression from these bad little bottles and think ALL vapes taste like that.
    BOY ARE THEY WRONG. I wish everyone would buy from the better companies online. What a world of difference.
    Fear of the liquid is so wrong…. there are only 3-4 ingredients in the good vapes and none of the harmful ingredients like cigs.
    Who says the goal is to quit cigs. AND vape??????? I love vaping, and do not have a goal to quit. You can vape indoors without offending anyone or giving them second hand smoke. You cannot set the house on fire from falling asleep while vaping. Your clothes and HOUSE do not smell bad like with smoke from cigs.
    There are lots of reasons to vape. Mine is to enjoy all of the wonderful flavors, and have the percentage of nicotine WITHIN MY CONTROL.
    The chemical in question is a by product of making yeast. The other chemicals are NOT in your vaping liquid….. people get a grip!!!
    I’m sure you want the liquid labled “organic”.

    From, Happliy Vaping in Virginia,
    C.C.

    1. It is likely that after quitting cigarettes you will find yourself coughing until your body adjusts. And it is true, the more VG in an e-juice will produce a bigger cloud of vapor. The more PG in a mix will produce more of a throat hit, and will you give you more of that “burn” you mentioned. While PG tends to carry flavor more, a lot of people prefer VG blends because of the smoother hit and larger cloud production. With all the shops and businesses offering their own e-juice it is likely to come across some lower quality products. Sorry you didn’t have a great experience at your local shop. Here at Mt Baker Vapor we do everything we can to make sure our customers are informed enough to make smart choices when it comes to vaping. Loved reading all of your reasons to vape! Take care, and never hesitate to ask if you have questions.

  37. When I smoked tobacco products – for decades – I was always interested in moving to something even a bit safer. So I moved to American Spirit cigs, and then to cigars. Small, slightly safer moves.

    About six months ago the kid who works at the local cigar store (which also sold vaping supplies) gave me some info on vaping, and I made the move into the very complex world of vapes. While I’m still very much a newbie, the whole experience has been interesting.

    After trying half a dozen other online suppliers, I settled on Mt. Baker. The attitude in their descriptions, blogs and editorials sounds honest and dedicated as far as I can tell.

    Anyway, that’s a long-ish preamble to my opinion on how this diacetyl situation has been handled by Mt. Baker.

    The fact that they’re openly commenting on it at all is a huge plus, since we all know how “open” any tobacco company has been about their own products.

    Beyond that, what I think some of the critics are missing here is the fact that the research and findings regarding diacetyl toxicity are very sparse and very far from solid conclusion.

    That doesn’t mean it should all be ignored; … exactly the opposite is true, since the evidence so far, though slight, does raise some important questions that need more study.

    My own plan is to check the lists that are available, showing the tested amount of the additives in question, and avoid using the specific e-juices that show more than trace amounts of those additives until more studies are published. But I won’t stop vaping, since the only alternative my stubborn and nicotine-addicted brain will consider is a return to smoking tobacco products.

    In short, I’d rather choose something that has a slight chance of causing health problems, sold to me by people who truly seem to care, and who are addressing the possible problems, than choose one that will absolutely cause major problems, sold to me by people who know damn well that their products will most likely kill me, and who couldn’t care less.

    1. First off, congratulations to you on quitting cigarettes. That is no easy task! Thank you for your support, and thank you for doing a bit of research on your own. We do our best to keep our customers informed and educated so that they can make responsible vaping decisions. We also try to encourage people to do their own research so that they can come to their own conclusions on whether or not vaping is the right choice for them. If you decide to make the switch to vaping we will do everything we can to keep you an informed, and happy vaper. In regards to the diacetyl concerns we are working on getting test results verified and everyone’s patience in this matter is greatly appreciated. Currently we are relying on the word of our vendors who have assured us the ingredients we purchase are free of diacetyl. We understand the community wants more than this, and we are working to address those concerns.

  38. It frequently states the the workers who contracted popcorn lung were exposed to diacetyl in powder form. Now I see people all over the internet stating that as a fact and using this article as the citation.

    Where did you gather that the workers were exposed to diacetyl in powder form?

    1. We’re just trying to present the information that we have found. We encourage all our customers to do their research regarding vaping, and we hope that this blog can help them do so.

  39. According the link to the FDA site you posted and used as a source, that article is in regards to Diacetyl in food not vapor.

    I just want to say that I commend everyone for quitting smoking but something should be done about the safety or the flavoring ingredients. Denying the amount or effects of Diacetyl in e juice is not helping.

  40. Made the switch to vaping as I was concerned about the second hand smoke inhalation of my children. Since Ive found it a great alternative,have noticed less sinus infections/allergies and becoming less winded during activity. My mother notified me of popcorn lung which led me to conduct a google search, which then coincidentally led me to the site I buy my juice from (MBV.) Looking forward to seeing the results of your independent studies although i doubt they will lead to me quitting either way as I enjoy vaping, perhaps more so than I did smoking due to the flavor variety. Tokin’ on some moo juice as I read this and looking forward to loading xcube 2 come x-mas day with echo cooler.

  41. Gee… Harvard Medical or a vaping gear purveyor. Wonder which I would consider as a more unbiased and legit source of info. Debating whether a chemical is in liquid or powder form is ignorance at best. Its like questioning if powdered arsenic is deadly but in liquid form it’d be safe to consume. Vaping is just as bad as cigarettes… you’ll merely die from a different set of diseases and cancers. If you need to have something stuck in your face to suck on let me suggest candy as an alternative. At least then you might only have to deal with diabetes or weight gain.

    1. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Like we’ve said before, this article is a collection of resources for consumers to educate themselves on the topic. We want people to do their own research.

  42. I strongly believe people have a right to put what they want in their bodies; however, people need to be fully informed and given accurate information. I don’t use e-juice or smoke cigarettes but want to learn about vaping because I’m invested in my family’s health and wellness and strongly suspect science will prove vaping is just as bad as smoking cigarettes. I’m not surprised to find your article in response to recent negative reports on vaping in the news. It’s in your interest to keep selling your products. I am very concerned blog entries like this will be used by young people like my 15 year old nephew to say, “see auntie, vaping is okay. It’s not bad for your body.” My nephew has a mod and just the thought of him using it upsets me greatly, but since I am not his mother I can only tell him how I feel about cigarettes and vaping. He’s too young to be vaping and naive about the world. He still needs to learn critical thinking and how to discern garbage science from legit science. Just like scientists proved cigarettes cause cancer, I am sure we’ll learn vaping causes harm to the body, possibly even cancer. One of the commentors here said the suppliers could be telling you what you want to hear about what they put in the juice. They’re not selling products to improve one’s health. Whatever pleasure one can derive from vaping is not worth the risk to my health today and in the future.

    1. Thank you for your comment and for your concern. I’m glad to see you so concerned for the well being of your nephew. We do not condone or advocate underage vaping by any means. We strongly believe that anyone who vapes should be of legal smoking age. We also believe people should be fully educated and given accurate information, and we also encourage our customers to do their own research and come to their own conclusions. Vaping is a choice that we as adults get to make and we hope people come to their own educated decisions on whether or not vaping is right for them. Make no mistake, vaping should never be advertised as a way to improve your health. True it has been said to have helped people quit smoking cigarettes, but it is not something that will make you “healthier”. If you are concerned about health risks you probably shouldn’t be vaping as inhaling any foreign substance is bad for your lungs.

      We are working to get test results out, and your patience is greatly appreciated. Currently we are relying on the word of our flavor providers who have told us the ingredients we purchase are free of diacetyl. We understand the community wants more than that and we are working to address those concerns.

      Our MSDS (Manufacturers Declaration) from the manufacturer who produces the base flavor compounds that we use in our flavoring does not declare Diacetyl, Acetoin or Acetyl Propionyl, or other known variations thereof, in it’s construction. In the interest of full disclosure, we are currently having these flavors tested to ensure quality and consistency throughout the manufacturing process. As it stands, the flavor supplier who provides our flavoring base has not included Diacetyl, Acetyl Propionyl or Acetoin in the construction of this flavor.

      We value complete transparency with our customers and if, during the course of testing, we find any of these ingredients, we will ensure that our customers are notified and we will take the necessary measures to continue to provide safe and quality e liquids.

  43. The truth is yes they have the chemicals in their juice and so do 90% of the shops out there. Smoking cigs is way. worse for you than the low traces. Of the chems in the vape juice … I wouldn’t worry about it but that’s your choice.

    1. We are working towards getting test results out and verified. We value complete transparency with our customers and if, during the course of testing, we find any of these ingredients, we will ensure that our customers are notified and we will take the necessary measures to continue to provide safe and quality e liquids.

  44. Not to be critical of your evidence here and what you are trying to show. It seems to me Diacetyl contained in a cigarette is not comparable to diacetyl in vapping directly. What is contained in the aerosol from heating is quite different than what you would find in the smoke from combustion. Reasoning that flows from; “vapping is not smoking” must be maintained and consistent, if it can be legitimized at all. Second hand smoke mythology is a product of the slight of hand in describing what a smoker inhales, as the same product that results after being thousands of times diluted by the ambient air. If it takes 35 years of smoking to produce an effect at the onset of old age, how many more years would an equal dosage take to produce, to get to a point anyone ever seriously needed to be “protected” from second hand smoke. The lie is convenient to a majority [who would feel the fool, if they even considered running away] but holds no level of biological credibility. Especially while claiming dosages are important indications of potential harm.

    I would argue in your case that the more appropriate comparison should be seen in the extremely high content of diacetyl that is added to margarine, or coffee, in order to attract people, who would otherwise have never used a tasteless grease substitute, as a food staple. Much less enjoy the smell of fresh brewed coffee. It took a lot of advertising and deep discount pricing, for so many to replace farm fresh butter. [You find diacetyl in butter as well] What you put in the pan to fry your eggs and for how many years we have done so, would serve your intents and consistency to a much more appropriate degree. If aerosol forms of Diacetyl were a cancerous agent of inhalation, we would have known it fifty years ago. When they started to sell us margarine, while claiming it was healthier than real butter. We haven’t even touched on the fact that your largest exposures and the source of the largest degree of second hand inhaled diacetyl, are from perspiration. Is anyone going to pick up an anti exercise mantra. To protect ourselves against second hand sweat?

  45. I love how nobody gave a shit about the chemicals when they were smoking cigarettes all day… Then a mention of one or two chemicals in e-juice and they’re banging on about class actions lol! This seems pretty cut and dry to me, inhaling anything all day every day (aside from fresh air) probably isn’t great for your lungs. But it seems it’s a no brainer that vaping is better than smoking cigarettes (if nothing else, it sure taste and smells better!). Of course it’s nice to know if it’s safe or not, but I guarantee you didn’t think twice when smoking cigarettes about the THOUSANDS of chemicals in those?! In fact, everyone knew how ridiculously dangerous they are for your health and STILL did it! Myself included lol =)

    I haven’t order from you guys yet, but you’re next on the list 😉 Thanks for a great informative post! Looking forward to getting some MBV =D

    1. You make some very valid points! However, we do understand the publics concern on this matter and we are working on addressing these issues. We hope you have a chance to try our juice! Never hesitate to ask if you should ever have any questions or issues. Cheers, and vape on!

  46. Without doubt, but the thing I have a slight issue with is people spamming you guys for trying to make a healthier smoke for us… You don’t see tobacco companies saying “hmm how can we make cigarettes healthier” they just bundle all the crap in and take the money when we smoke it. That’s what made me laugh with some of the comments. The fact you are trying to be transparent with your customers and the fact you are actively seeking to make your juice as healthy as possible is most certainly why I’ll be ordering from you next! I’m in the UK and the p&p is a bit expensive, but I’m happy to pay for a company that goes above and beyond for their customers as you guys clearly do!

  47. I meant slamming not spamming… Might have to organise a class action against Apple for thier poor auto correct functionality. ?

  48. Hello, just inquiring…. I see many months ago that you are in the process of testing all of your flavors and state that it is a lengthy costly process. However, I must disagree. The web seller VaporShark sents all products they sell, homemade and brand name and provide a test result sheet for every product they sell. I am sure you would have no problem sending out a box of 150 sample bottles of your flavors to a lab as I am sure you easily send out that many each day just to your existing customers. I would feel so much more comfortable if you could say “we have tested, and the results are” versus “our suppliers told or reassured us”. So, I must ask why is the process taking so long? I purchased a product that was stated to be free of both of the substances in ejuice that are “supposed” to be harmful from a competitive web seller and sent it to the ENTHALPYANALYTICAL.com lab and did receive a report that confirmed the companys claims. Furthermore, the test was really cheap in my opinion. Would be much more assuring if you would stand behind your word and do the testing, this process should take weeks, not months and months on end.

    1. We do understand your concerns and are working to address them as soon as possible. We are taking our time to make sure the testing is up to our standards. Please understand that your concerns are not falling on deaf ears.

  49. Thanks, I will look forward to seeing the results and progress of testing, as I am sure many of the other vapers on here are as well.

    Happy New Year

  50. First of all, as a PR Rep myself, well done handling that meas up thread. Second of all, as a long time, if sporadic customer, thank you for your efforts at transparency and taking on the task of third party testing. Keep up the good work. Much love from another loyal customer.

  51. Just wanting to be linked to this for the results of the long awaited tests. I understand they might have stuff that CAN be dangerous, I for one will continue to vape IF the dangers are significantly lower than analogs. At the very least WE ALL need to know what EXACTLY we are ingesting, and HOW dangerous this really is. I have a new medical procedure, that’s safer than the norm, I have not evidence for this, but trust me it’s safer than the norm. COME ON REALLY? Please test it, we understand if it’s not perfect, and then you guys can try changing it, but PLEASE don’t profit off our life, like cig companies did to so many generations.

    1. We are working to get test results out, and your patience is greatly appreciated. Currently we are relying on the word of our flavor providers who have told us the ingredients we purchase are free of diacetyl. We understand the community wants more than that and we are working to address those concerns.

  52. You know I had found Mt Baker because I felt uncomfortable with Johnson Creek’s lack of disclosures — and now I realize that Mt. Baker basically says they are told their products they use are diacetyl free -and it is hard to din this info unless you type “diacetyl” in the search box. I have written them to confirm – but if so this is just not good enough. This is what started the whole diacetyl thing – with sales people and suppliers saying “oh no – ours does not contain THAT” and sure enough it did. I was happy to have found a supplier that I thought was diacetyl free but without independent lab testing it is really a crap shoot – i see this blog as of 6-15 saying that independent testing will be done. It has been 7 months and I do not see any results released so I will not be ordering again until I see lab results. FYI – I have been looking at AEMSA to find another e juice supplies.

    1. We are working to get test results out, and your patience is greatly appreciated. Currently we are relying on the word of our flavor providers who have told us the ingredients we purchase are free of diacetyl. We understand the community wants more than that and we are working to address those concerns.

  53. I’m curious as to who Mt Baker Vapor’s suppliers are? Seems to me that if they want to make their customers confident in Mt Baker’s products they’d say who their suppliers are. Just going by “Our suppliers say it doesn’t have any” is pretty shady business. Also saying that it is less than cigarettes is pretty shady also. Cool that it has less than cigarettes, but for those customers that do it for the flavor and not the nicotine, just a little bit compared to cigarettes is okay according to Mt Baker Vapor’s blogger’s opinion? Again seems a bit shady to me. What are the standards used for testing? Are the flavors again tested if a formula is changed? Are the e liquid companies self regulating themselves enough to have their products tested on a regular basis? Once test results are presented, are they tested again by another lab to confirm the findings as any scientific test is done, or are they just tested once then calling that conclusive? Any test is done more than once and then the multiple results are used to reach a consensus. Is this testing being done regularly? I would guess not. Again, Mt Baker Vapor saying who their suppliers are would help their customers make an informed decision, but they aren’t willing to give out that info for fear of someone being able to create their vapor liquid. Unfortunately that type of secrecy is pretty shady also.

    1. Our MSDS (Manufacturers Declaration) from the manufacturer who produces the base flavor compounds that we use in our flavoring does not declare Diacetyl, Acetoin or Acetyl Propionyl, or other known variations thereof, in it’s construction. In the interest of full disclosure, we are currently having these flavors tested to ensure quality and consistency throughout the manufacturing process. As it stands, the flavor supplier who provides our flavoring base has not included Diacetyl, Acetyl Propionyl or Acetoin in the construction of this flavor.

      We value complete transparency with our customers and if, during the course of testing, we find any of these ingredients, we will ensure that our customers are notified and we will take the necessary measures to continue to provide safe and quality e liquids.

  54. Just a thought, why don’t people get there own tests done and report back? Or better still club together to get some juices tested?

    1. We are working to get test results out, and your patience is greatly appreciated. Currently we are relying on the word of our flavor providers who have told us the ingredients we purchase are free of diacetyl. We understand the community wants more than that and we are working to address those concerns.

    1. We are working to get test results out, and your patience is greatly appreciated. We understand the community wants more than what we have provided and we are working on addressing these concerns.

  55. That is a fair point, if you have the paperwork from your suppliers, why not post a pic up? I’ve just put in a reasonable size order across a range of flavours. I might send a few off when they arrive.

  56. Let me make one more point. One of the propaganda points has always been that cigarettes contain thousands of chemicals and e juice only contains 3 or 4. Not entirely true. Look into the number of man made chemicals that are in one single flavor such as strawberry, just as an example. There are over 300 chemicals in artificial strawberry. Add more flavors to that, and the number of chemicals climb. http://www.trueactivist.com/food-labs-use-an-average-of-2000-chemicals-to-create-500-natural-flavors/

  57. Very good point John. That was me that made that point and it wasn’t meant as propaganda. I was more trying to make a point that no body cared about all the chemicals when smoking cigarettes (myself included in that). I do think that if MBV have some “proof” it would be nice if they share, I also understand the cost involved in getting all the juices tested, but I also get it from a consumer point of view that why can’t they start with the most popular juices and publish those results…? I have MBV juice on order that should be with me shortly, and I have already found labs here in the UK that are willing to test it for me. When the juice arrives, and assuming it’s not insanely expensive, I will send some off to be tested and report back, if MBV let me 😉

    1. We definitely encourage our customers do research on their own. It’s important to educate yourself and come to your own conclusions. We are working on getting test results verified and your patience is greatly appreciated.

  58. I did a bit of digging around on multiple DIY forums and Mt Baker’s flavorings are thought by many many people to be from Flavor West. In fact Mt Baker uses alot of the exact same flavor names as Flavor West. Flavor West flavors have been found to contain Diacetyl. It is starting to explain why the only response Mt Baker makes throughout the comments is, “Our suppliers have told us they don’t have these things, and “We are working on getting test results verified and your patience is greatly appreciated.” They have pretty much been responding this way for over 6 months. I think they know the flavors do have Diacetyl, and are doing the typical sleazy business stall until someone takes legal action.

  59. I did a bit more digging and found that a brand that Mt Baker Vapor sells called Charlie’s Chalk Dust Dream Cream did test positive for Diacityl. Mt Baker Vapor gives customers no indication that it contains this.

  60. All most of us want to know is whether Hawk Sauce is diacetyl-free. Nobody would have a problem with tests being one-by-one put up as they’re done.

    I understand wanting to keep your supplier secret for proprietary reasons but there’s quite a bit of distrust circulating the web regarding the authenticity of your guarantees since there are no MSDS/fact sheets to back it up. Right now it looks like you’re delaying publishing results because there’s something to hide.

    1. Our MSDS (Manufacturers Declaration) from the manufacturer who produces the base flavor compounds that we use in our flavoring does not declare Diacetyl, Acetoin or Acetyl Propionyl, or other known variations thereof, in it’s construction. In the interest of full disclosure, we are currently having these flavors tested to ensure quality and consistency throughout the manufacturing process. As it stands, the flavor supplier who provides our flavoring base has not included Diacetyl, Acetyl Propionyl or Acetoin in the construction of this flavor.

      We value complete transparency with our customers and if, during the course of testing, we find any of these ingredients, we will ensure that our customers are notified and we will take the necessary measures to continue to provide safe and quality e liquids.

    1. This process is currently underway. After testing, which is time-intensive, we will need analysis, which is also time-intensive. Stay tuned, as we shall remain proactive about this.

  61. Look, I used to work at a factory that makes diacetyl, and the one thing people don’t know is that if inhaled in large amounts it can actually cause a sort of opiate -like high. Thankfully I was drug tested by my employer and promptly fired after they discovered I was snorting rails of pure powdered diacetyl right off the assembly line.

    I don’t have “popcorn lung” and look at what I used to do DAILY. There should be no fear of MBV using diacetyl in their products since A) They’ve already stated (too many times) that they don’t include it in their juices, and B) I used to snort that stuff, hell, I’d stick my head in giant piles of it and just take deep breaths, and I’M FINE! There’s nothing to be scared of.

    Don’t worry (negative comment writers) you’re all going to live forever and never get sick just like the people that don’t smoke regular cigarettes.

  62. Diacetyl is linked to more than popcorn lung in large amounts. It is also linked to alzheimer’s disease. So trying to limit amounts would not be remiss. Vaping while having less toxins than cigerettes are still not healthy. Why else is big tobacco attempting to take it over? Because they need to increase smoker/vapor recruitment or go broke.

    1. Thanks for your response and your concern. With over 100 different flavors and many combinations we are doing everything we can to get our menu tested and results verified. We understand the public wants more than what we’ve offered and your patience on the matter is greatly appreciated.

  63. What lab is doing, or has done the testing? Surely after over a year, you can at least say what lab is doing the testing instead of just saying, “We are working to get test results out, and your patience is greatly appreciated. We understand the community wants more and we are working to address those concerns.”

  64. Well here’s my stance on the subject on hand
    1.) Vaping is not to change smokers to vapers but instead to slowly lower amounts of nicotine to get you to quit period.
    2.) Vape is in your lungs on average the same amounts of time that cigeratte smoke is. so if you divide the 110 times less harmful by that factor you get something “safer”. And that’s the keyword safer not safe but safer.
    3.) I have asthma , within one month of smoking ciggerattes everyday only about a pack a day which is average for a smoker I got bronchitis.. Within one year of vaping I have caught nothing . not to mention I use nothing but fruit and sweet flavored flavoring .
    4.) Let’s take into account again for all those who need glasses it clearly said powder and not liquid.
    5.)let’s take into account there is no proof yet
    6.) Let’s take into account that once again vaping not only is safer but coming from someone who has asthma. It is ultimately its not what you cape or smoke its how you cape or smoke it always remember that … Smh honestly society really just believes anything anyone tells them how about you experience it yourself and then comeback and argue instead of omg it blew up (guy who didn’t correctly build his coil or omg it causes poocorn lung ( no actual cases reported not to mention the chical is dangerous in powders form and is found greater in ciggerattes) Jesus ppl use your brain for once that what its for.

  65. Ok, so a couple comments about this whole diacety conversation.
    Firstly I would like Mt Vapor Baker to produce and post proof of the supposed letters from suppliers showing that they have actually have said letters.
    Secondly, testing for any chemical compound is not that hard nor expensive especially from such a simple compound, basically any individual can contact the correct testing lab and pay to have it tested.
    I would think if mtvaporbaker is truly concerned they would pay for this and openly share all information.

  66. I heard about the ‘popcorn lung’ and liquids turning to aerosols at certain temperatures. Which means as an aerosol the particles can travel deeper into the lungs. While I am not to concerned a friend of mine was trying to hype me up on why vaping is bad. So digging around the internet to learn more, it turns out the anti-smoking agenda is just throwing stuff out there without doing research. Here’s a good article I read that explains it pretty good.
    http://dailycaller.com/2015/12/14/media-bias-exposed-popcorn-lung-chemical-750-times-greater-in-tobacco-vs-e-cigarettes/

  67. A basic question that I really do not know the answer to: Is it possible for you (or anyone else) to produce tasty milk / cream / yogurt / custard / ice cream / milkshake / pie crust / pastry / etc – flavored juices WITHOUT using flavorings that contain diketones, or do we the consumers have to make a decision between abstinence or exposure to potentially harmful additives? BTW, I appreciate that you guys are continuing this thoughtful discussion of an important topic, instead of hiding it or ignoring it like many other vendors.

    1. It’s definitely possible to do, but taste is subjective and some people don’t think that these replacements taste as good. There is also less research done on these substitutes than there is done on diacetyl so who knows if they’re any better or worse for you. But the answer is yes, it can be and is done. Thank you for appreciating the conversation. We believe topics like this should be discussed, not ignored.

  68. So, the researchers at Harvard are mistaken? Not commenting on your product specifically, but on the industry as a whole. Inhaling anything besides nitrogen, oxygen, and carbon dioxide at above trace levels isn’t a great idea.

  69. I know anything that goes in my lungs besides air is not healthy,but it’s better than cigarettes , I quit 6 years ago and I feel much better vaping , my lungs are working just fine

  70. Hey, I just want to thank you for all this information and unproven studies about popcorn lungs your awesome keep up the good work

  71. Now some people are using e-cigarettes. E-cigarettes may be less harmful than normal cigarettes but not harmless. He can start smoking again because of frustration and some other reasons. We also know that smoking is very harmful for the body.

  72. If people are worried about the risks of vaping or have any doubts about its safe use, simply do not vape. Smoking e-cigarettes may not be totally harmless – but e-cigarettes are certainly way less harmful than smoking traditional cigarettes. Myself and many others have experienced much better health since switching. My breathing is better, is feel fitter and I now vape less than I use to smoke.

  73. Diacetyl (popcorn lung chemical) Exposure from Vaping is 750 Times Lower than from Smoking…. in addition smoking has 4000 chemicals of which 500 are registered carcinogens. e-cigarettes have 4 chemicals of which none are carcinogens, nicotine is found in tomatoes and other vegetables. E-Cigarettes is a healthier alternative, it is not harmless, however nothing is harmless. it is a great life saving alternative to people who cannot quit and these bias studies funded by tobacco companies have no leg to stand on, all the anwsers are in scientific literature and proper studies such as those published on pubmed with proper refferences.

    1. Thanks for the support and your insights! I think this topic is very divisive, and the debate will continue to rage for some time. I’m looking forward to more research and data to arrive, which will settle a lot of fears.

  74. Well I have to say, to all of the people who it took to write this and to reply (especially to all the rude jackA$$**)to every person in such a professional and correct manner, you guy did a great job and it shows you take care of the customers and people out at least in this manner and on paper.

  75. Don’t even worry about Diacetyl. First, it was a small handful of factory workers who got sick. Second, there’s tons of it in real paper cigarette smoke and no smoker or anyone exposed to secondhand smoke ever got popcorn lung. It wasn’t even proven popcorn lung came from Diacetyl.

    Factory workers were exposed to huge amounts of Roundup from the corn. And even worse, they were around large amounts of microwaved chemicals, not just Roundup. They were exposed to fumes from the popcorn packaging being microwaved. Their whole work environment was cancer and disease waiting to happen. The stuff they were inhaling was a powder that contained alot more than just Diacetyl. Roundup, GMO corn particles, colorings, and other unsafe ingredients. Diacetyl got the blame so no one would look further into the dangers of Roundup, GMO corn, and Microwaving foods, especially microwaving packaging like the popcorn bags, which give off chemical fumes when you do that. You won’t get sick like that from vaping. It’s more dangerous to microwave food than it is to vape. It’s also a thousand times more dangerous to use air fresheners in your home, which contain nerve deadening pesticides and a whole host of cancer causing, lung destroying agents. Same with laundry fumes. Vaping is a thousand times safer.

    People have been vaping for years now, there are no mass cases of popcorn lung. We’d all have heard about it by now. In fact, it’s just the opposite, most vapers all say they are breathing better vaping. Some do have allergies to different ingredients, but that is not popcorn lung. And it’s usually a sensitivity to PG, and it’s usually solved with switching to all VG ejuice.

    Relax, enjoy vaping, and look beyond the media’s mass hysteria campaigns.

  76. My Baker Vapor is by far my favorite. The little sense check you can do is does it make me cough later? If so, regardless of any chemicals in the flavor whether specified in research or not, you know what your body can handle. I run a good 15m a week and very few if any Mt Baker flavors affect my lungs. Compared to other juices I’ve tried I’d say imperially that’s a thumbs up. Talking with other vapors this surely isn’t the case with random juices.

  77. For all those in a panic over possible diacetyl content in vaping liquids, you should read the following article by Dr. Farsalinos.

    http://www.ecigarette-research.org/research/index.php/whats-new/whatsnew-2015/236-da2

    Note that he is opposed to the use of diacetyl, not because of its low level concentrations in vaping liquids, but because the use is unnecessary.

    Also keep in mind that the primary purpose for vaping is to reduce or quit smoking cigarettes (e.g. harm reduction – ignored by the rabid antivaping crowd), is unarguably about two orders of magnitude more hazardous than vaping. So, even if diacetyl proved to be necessary for an acceptable vaping experience, I personally would use those liquids, willingly accepting the minute risk in return for being able to never again smoke cigarettes.

  78. Why not post links to your suppliers MSDS? Or is that proprietary to your formulas? Could just put them up all together and not expose your recipes.

  79. I say instead of being rude and making threats about not shopping at certain companies, go back to buying your cancer sticks thats nearly 100% for sure gonna kill ya, or shut up and be patient. I know I have been smoking for 25 years and when I get the will power go forget about cigarettes and I vape I feel a lot better just in a few days to a few weeks until I get that horrible urge that I can’t mentally pass and then I buy cigarettes. I can feel the difference between the 2 and my body basically tells me that vaping is better.

  80. Ok. I have quit smoking about two weeks ago with the help of vape. I’m already down to 3mg of nicotine. Now everyone at work tells me I’m going to get popcorn lung (lol, they are all smokers who I’ve seen try to quit various times. ) personally I do not care if da is in my eliquids or not. Only two weeks, food tastes better, my kids are all proud of me and tell so me on a daily basis. Non smokers enjoy being at my house again due to not smelling like an ash tray. All in all I feel better and I have been noticing a better lung capacity (less stops to breath while playing with my kids), all after just two weeks. I was a smoker for 15 years. Can’t wait to try some juice from mbv, I’m new to the vape scene but some tasty fruit punch and my nebox. I will never go back to smoking cigs. One day I may stop with the vape, maybe not. Until then I can’t wait to see how I feel in the upcoming weeks as I drop to 0mg nicotine. Will be giving mbv a try. And hey if there test come back with trace amounts of da, well I will still feel better than I was with cigs. Now I’m not saying that vape is safe, but my body is telling me that this was a good switch.

    O and ty mbv for the blog/thread or whatever you want to call it. There is a lot of useful info/links to start researching it on my own. And I’m not worried, besides 15 years I smoked knowing cigs would eventually take my life,,, DIDNT CARE, at least at the time….

    Until my next adventure ,Loving life in my huge clouds, vape on, vape strong…..

    1. Sean, this is wonderful news! I’m glad you’ve made the switch, and that you appreciate the resources we lovingly assemble for our public! I hope we keep you as a customer for years to come!

    2. So awesome and thanks for sharing! I’m so happy to hear of your experiences…especially what you’re children said. Kudos to you for doing your own research. There truly is no substitute to being informed. 15 years on the coffin nails and you are down to 3mg of nicotine is something to be proud of! Very impressive good sir!

      If you looking to try a fruit flavor, you may want to give “Forestberry Fusion” e liquid a try. I’m a new vaper and I keep coming back to it. Very tasty!

  81. I love reading paranoid comments. I’ve been vaping since I was 18 (I used to smoke at the age of 16 and am not proud). I have no lung problems and vaping helped me quit. My e-juice has 9 micrograms of diacetyl but I’m not affected at all. I’m 24 now and been vaping for 6 years. Listen to your suppliers not the media that supports paranoia. If your shop can’t give you information find one that can. My providers know every single chemical that goes into the liquid and mix it all themselves in-house. The flavors are great and I’ve yet to be affected. If your vaping a nic level that’s too high your gonna cough. If your using a powerful box that gives off too much cloud your gonna cough. At least the first time. Find something you can settle on and that’s right for you. There’s a reason there’s so many flavors. We all have different preference what works for me won’t work for others, and some may want to go further. I use a tfv4 with an asmodus box vaping 10% nic at 70/30 VG in a .3 subohm. I’m sure some my think its crazy others will think its not hardcore enough.

    P.S. I have asthma and vaping doesn’t do anything to me.

  82. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4892705/
    If you take the time to read this entire published research you will learn that ejuices containing DA and/or AP are in fact dangerous to inhale. The research also says that while DA and AP are present in cigarettes, most ejuices contain DA and AP at 100 and 10 times lower amounts, respectively, than a single cigarette. Therefore, if you are trying to quit smoking, vaping is way less harmful for you.
    It is commonly argued by ejuice distributors such as mtbakervapor that it is safe to consume in food (which is true) which also makes it safe to inhale (not true.) It actually advises that “Manufacturers and flavoring suppliers should take the necessary steps to make sure that these chemicals are not present in EC liquid products, by regularly testing their products and changing formulations, without the need to limit the availability of sweet flavors in the market.”
    DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH PEOPLE!! DON’T RELY ON THESE COMPANIES TO MISCONSTRUE WHAT IS SAID IN RESEARCH TO AVOID SCARING YOU AWAY FROM THEIR PRODUCTS!

  83. This subject and the concern of consumers as to what they are vaping is valid. To be dismissive of such concern by manufacturers demonstrates an archaic view prevelant in the politically conservative who are also ant-govt., ant-EPA, etc. That Said…
    There are now more recent, objective and thorough discussions complete with third party testing on many sites.
    Finally, it is all about transparency. The cigarette and alcolhol industries resisted transparency. Hopefully we have all out grown the reactive right wing, defensive rhetoric of any industry even as it permeates the Political Landscape.
    Just my brief opinion.

  84. I have read most of these replies and no way im vaping anything with da or ap in it.

    I quit smoking easily with vaping no problem at all but I wont deal with anyone dodging this issue in any way shape or form.

  85. This blog caught my attention because a couple of people tried to warn me about the dreaded “popcorn lung” about a year ago and I just laughed it off due to the fact that I have been vaping for 7 years and have had no problems with cough since I quit smoking. As a matter of fact the only thing I experienced were headaches for the first couple of weeks when I started vaping and quit smoking at the same time. I attributed it to my body adjusting to not being exposed to all those other nasty chemicals in cigarettes.
    Thank you MBV for posting all of the facts about diacetyl. I also wanted to add my two cents to counter all of the terrible feedback on this post. I have been ordering from MBV off and on for the past few years but I will only buy my vape exclusively from Mt. Baker now. I say this because I have recently had a terrible time with local suppliers selling sub standard vape juice. There is nothing worse than having your juice turn black and taste burnt while you are vaping it. Even worse the juice would just ruin my coils within a week.
    I have never had these issues with MBV juice and I will never switch back. You guys provide the highest quality juice. It always remains clear, the taste is wonderful and my coils are never ruined by your juice.
    I have absolutely no doubts about the ingredients and purity of your juice. Thank you for always putting out a great product and also thank you for taking the time to educate your customers.

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