Dear Summit: Age Verification

GWAR B Q

APRIL 5th, 2017 Update:


Mt Baker Vapor works diligently to keep vapor products out of the hands of minors and takes cyber-security seriously. In the interest of an improved user experience, we have evaluated customer feedback and your concerns regarding our current age verification program.  As such, Mt Baker Vapor is researching new options to meet the age verification requirements.  Therefore, we are taking temporary action to give you a streamlined, user-friendly process.


We will continue to search for an age verification program that will be simpler while continuing to meet all of your needs and federal requirements.


Thank you for helping us improve our processes!

 

Kenny Spotz
Kenny joined the Mt. Baker Vapor crew in November of 2014 because he was excited by the idea of working in such a cutting-edge industry. Beyond MBV, he's an avid musician, writer, and hiker.

Author: Kenny Spotz

Kenny joined the Mt. Baker Vapor crew in November of 2014 because he was excited by the idea of working in such a cutting-edge industry. Beyond MBV, he's an avid musician, writer, and hiker.

193 thoughts on “Dear Summit: Age Verification”

  1. Refusing to do age verification manually in exceptional circumstances will cost you customers. I live in Costa Rica so have no U.S. phone number. Not only that, I refuse to give that much info to any company I don’t know/trust. In online chat, they told me it is through the service ONLY. I have to call BS on that because you won’t be doing that at your physical store. You also have a copy of my passport, my credit card info and two and a half years of orders totalling almost $2000. If you want to be lazy and not age verify manually for some customers in strange situations, you will lose customers. I guess you just lost me.

    1. Then I guess you will have to find someone else or buy locally this is the law not them. They are a very trustworthy business I have been dealing with them for over 2 years I have no problem giving them what the law requires

      1. Hi Laurie,

        Thanks for your understanding. The new Age Verification process is part of the new FDA Deeming Regulations. All online e juice manufacturers are required to use an age verification component in their orders to be compliant. Customer satisfaction is our highest priority and any inconvenience experienced in our ordering process is not our intent.

      2. I’d have not problem giving them what they need as well…as I have in the past when I sent them a photo of my CC and my passport so I could have product shipped to a different address than my billing address. What you don’t seem to get is that your info is going to a THIRD PARTY and from the look of their privacy policy, they can and will sell your info. I’d much rather find another supplier if MBV won’t follow the ACTUAL law and do age verification manually for those of us in special circumstances. Their excuse ‘it’s the law’ is a LIE. The FDA regs say NOTHING about a third party verification, says NOTHING about how the retailer can’t age verify, says NOTHING about requirements for age verification on the internet and says NOTHING about shipping to a different address than the billing address on the card. So to keep telling us it is the ‘LAW’ is a lie when it is really either MBV being misinformed by their lawyers or MBV just not wanting to go the extra mile for long-time customers…your choice.

    2. It’s literally not their fault, they’re just trying to play by the books, which is what they have to do given the new regulations, in order for them as a business to survive. Don’t blame them blame the government.

      1. I think that everyone here does blame the FDA for an unbelievable amount of overreach. But we are also concerned that MBV has chosen a company that is asking for way too much information (far beyond what is required), that is not very transparent in their data collection and retention policies, and may not entirely be what MBV thinks that they are.
        I understand for MBV to do the verification in-house would be very expensive but it would also be safer than handing over the information that BlueCheck is asking for. I’ve been an identity theft victim in the past, and I happen to work in the computer security field, so I have more than enough reasons to forego continuing to be a MBV customer while they continue to use BlueCheck as their age verification gateway.

        1. i don’t work in the computer security field so not that tech savvy but, even i question this totally unknown and unverifiable bluecheck comp! just from doing some basic research on ‘young’ founder alex zeig/bluecheck.me/bluecheck.co/VEHsolution resulted in virtually no verifiable online footprint! Heck even doing a search on the address provided by bluecheck inc. is not verifiable online, it came up as the exact address as belonging to ‘Burpy’, a delivery service!
          things just don’t add up in my brain so am really quite surprise that some vendors are using this basically startup company, without any established business ties behind them, to handle our personal information and even worse i can’t believe they are (thats what they claim on their site) the suppose ‘Age Verification Provider for SFATA’, i would expect SFATA to at least verify the ones that are going to be verifying vapers!
          well time to go shop around, I was going to buy a few packs of some nautilus bvc coils here but, after seeing who MBV have chosen to verify us, i rather go pay the higher prices for these coils that others usually charge..

  2. I don’t own a cell phone but I’m of legal age. What would I do in a situation like this? I’ve placed many orders with you but now I can’t because I don’t own a cell phone???

    1. Hi Randall,

      Sorry about that. We are currently working on a solution that would allow for email verification. We apologize for the inconvenience and thank you for your patience.

  3. I’m going to agree with Steve that you’ve picked a bad company/service model to go with. There is actually a lot that you can do with the last four of an SSN, and I have to wonder if as BlueCheck is not a financial organization dealing with tracking financial transactions for tax purposes, that asking for that information is legal.

    There is also no information on how the photo ID is being used for verification. In the case that a service member does not have a drivers license I know that it is illegal for them to upload a photo of their CAC.

    Finally I do not see any information on how this data is being stored/protected and what the retention and destruction dates are. This information would be a gold mine to identity thieves and other criminals. There is no link to these policies on their website or even any contact link to ask what their policies are. I am also having some difficulty in figuring out their hosting/DNS and with having a country code top level domain for Montenegro I’m not comfortable giving them this level of information.

    1. Hi Brian,

      I’m sorry you are unhappy with the new Age Verification process. As of today all e juice manufacturers are required as part of the new FDA Deeming Regulations to included an age verification component to their ordering process. Your information is used for the sole purpose complying with the FDA Regulations and completing your order. It is not used for any other purpose. Once verified you don’t have to go through the process again unless you live in certain states (California and Washington I believe). I hope this helps and again, we apologize for any inconvenience.

      1. NO…the ONLY thing the FDA regs say is to get ID from anyone under 27. Making up laws that don’t exist and telling long time customers ‘sorry’ because you don’t want to manual age verification yourself while blaming it on new ‘regs’ is dishonest and shows me I really don’t want to order anything else from you guys anyway. Especially since I’ve been asking for two days and NO ONE from MBV is willing to show me documentation on this new ‘law’. You blame it on the FDA regs but refuse to point out where these regs are or what law is requiring you to use a third-party verification service.

      2. If Mt Baker was doing the verification I wouldn’t have an issue giving specific information as long as I knew that it would be destroyed after verification. But you’re asking me to hand information specifically mined by identity thieves to an unknown third party. There isn’t an address that I can mail, or even an email address to ask what their corporate policies dealing with this information is. I may as well just hand out cards on the street my address, the location of my spare key and the title ‘rob me’.

        While it is true that the FDA has imposed age verification, they did not impose the company that you chose. I hope that you reconsider the method/company for age verification before either your clientele abandons you en mass, or you are party to a law suit when BlueCheck is either compromised or sells the information that it has collected.

    1. Hi Sam,

      I’m sorry you are having difficulty with the new Age Verification software. Age Verification is part of the new FDA Deeming Regulations that went into effect today. Unfortunately it is necessary to use SMS to send your photo. We are currently working on a solution that will allow the use of a computer and email for verification. We apologize for the inconvenience.

    1. Hi Margaret,

      Thank you for your question. We currently do not have an alternative to working with a cell phone. However, we are currently working on a solution that will allow us to verify through email. Thank you for your patience while we work through this issue.

    2. Hi Margaret,

      Unfortunately, we do not have a working alternative to the cell phone at this time. However, we are working on a solution that would allow the customer to complete this process via email. Thanks so much for your patience while we work through this issue.

  4. I really hate what our gov has become. I love you guys, but I will not be giving my personally identifiable information to anyone for any reason. I hope that we as a community beat the FDA as we have been more vocal and willing to fight that most any other group out there and I hope to see you guys on the other side afterwards.

    Good luck to every one at Mt Baker Vapor!

    1. Hi Anthony,

      I’m sorry you’re having difficulty with the new system. The new system is a result of the new Deeming Regulations that went in effect today. Thank you for understanding our hand was forced. Your efforts in addressing the FDA. We will continue to fight the FDA and hope your will give us another try in the future.

      1. NO…this is a bald faced LIE. The ONLY thing the FDA regs say is to get photo ID from customers under 27. It says NOTHING about using a third-party service. It says NOTHING about not being able to do the age verification yourself. To be dishonest and blame this on the FDA regs is your choice. I’ve been asking for two days for you to show me the documentation where MBV is restricted from doing the age check themselves and NO ONE has even bothered to reply.

  5. Yeah I’m not going to be ordering any juice from any company that requires any part of my ssn. I understand nobody can really do anything with that, but it’s still too much just for ordering some ejuice. I was actually going to order some today, but then it got to the ssn part and I said nope. Sucks too bc I enjoyed this site.

    1. Hi Dan,

      We are sorry to see you go. The new Age Verification system is the result of the new FDA Deeming Regulations. All e juice manufacturers are required to implement an age verification component to their ordering process to be compliant. Mt Baker Vapor customer satisfaction is our highest priority. We sincerely hope we will have the opportunity to serve you in the future.

      1. This is a bald faced LIE. The ONLY thing the new regs require is photo ID from anyone UNDER 27. To make up your own parts of the law, while refusing to show any documentation that that is what is required, is dishonest.

      2. What about phone orders? I agree with all the customers here who are concerned about their privacy, and MBV should ABSOLUTELY NOT be using any kind of random middle-man software to “verify” an age requirement. Any company that processes online orders for a loyal customer base should do all it can to avoid compromising customer data security while being
        compliant to the BASIC law. Please listen to our concerns and find another way to keep us while keeping our info safe. Hire a team of consultants to solve this issue; you clearly need one.

  6. I live in Paraguay so logically I don’t have a social security number
    But I have hired a mailbox in USA
    My orders are shipped to an address in Florida
    So what I do?

    1. Hi Rodgrigo,

      Thank you for your post. The Age Verification does not apply to International orders so this should not affect you.

      1. But my order is not international, I buy with an address to Miami, Florida
        It is considered a domestic order

        1. You, like me, are just out of luck. I live in Costa Rica but send to the U.S. because sending anything here is futile and I’d never get it. MBV is blaming it on the new law but this is NOT part of the new FDA law which says NOTHING about any third party service or a retailer can’t age verify manually. Seems to me MBV got bad legal advice or just wants to do it through a third party so they have no questions, problems or extra work to do. It will bite them in the butt for not making concessions for loyal long-time customers who they already KNOW to be over 18.

    1. Hi Omar,

      Thanks for your question. My understanding is you can only send items to a p.o. box if it will fit. If your location is outside the U.S. the new Age Verification does not effect international orders.

    1. Hi Kayle,

      We’re sorry to see you go. The new Age Verification is part of the FDA Deeming Regulations that went into effect today. As of today all online e juice manufacturers are required to use Age Verification to be compliant. Any information provided to Mt Baker Vapor is secure and will not be used for any other purposes. We apologize for any inconvenience.

      1. If you want to keep up this lie, at least show me WHERE in the new regs it says that. Two days of asking and not a single reply. You seem to know that is what the rules are but can’t show me any documentation to back it up?? Ya right…

  7. With your birthday and last 4 of SSN that is too much info to give to a private party without liability. Bad choice on your part and sorry to lose you as a source.?

    1. Hi LJ,

      We are sorry to see you leave. We had no choice in the age verification process. It was mandated by the new FDA Deeming Regulations that went into effect today. All online e juice providers are supposed to enact the same type of verification. We sincerely hope we will have the opportunity to serve you in the future.

      1. Keep up the lie and refuse to show us where in the FDA regs it says that. Guess what…it does NOT say that. It says you are required to get photo ID from anyone under 27. It says nothing about using a third-party service. MBV could do age verification for people in these situations but you refuse to thus losing a large customer base.

        1. Therefore, the final rule states that
          retailers of the newly deemed covered
          tobacco products may not sell them to
          individuals under 18 years of age and
          requires retailers of covered tobacco
          products to verify the purchaser’s birth
          date by reviewing the individual’s
          photographic identification. However,
          as noted in § 1140.14(b)(2)(ii), a retailer
          is not required to verify the age of any
          person who is more than 26 years of age.
          In addition, § 1140.14(b)(3) prohibits the
          sale of covered tobacco products using
          an electronic or mechanical device such
          as a vending machine, unless it is
          located in a facility where the retailer
          ensures that no person younger than 18
          years of age is present, or permitted to
          enter, at any time. FDA does not intend
          for section 1140.14(b)(3) to prohibit the
          sale of tobacco products via the Internet,
          but the sale of covered tobacco products
          via any medium, including the Internet,
          must only be to persons 18 years of age
          or older. Therefore, any sale of covered
          tobacco products over the Internet must
          comply with the minimum age and
          identification requirements in this rule.

          We do not know how old you are. We have to do this because we do not see you face to face.

          1. so a copy of a government issued id with a pic and date of birth (drivers license) is all that should be needed. not the ssn.

          2. Actually you do…I was required to send a copy of my credit card and my passport which matched my shipping address long ago in order to ship to a different address from my billing address. I can do that again and that would be fine. I’m also over 26 years old so why do you need to verify me anyway? According to the law you just quoted, you don’t have to. I also miss anywhere in there where it says you MUST use a third party to age verify. You know me, you know my order history, you have seen my credit card, my billing address, my shipping address and my passport. Yet you are going to continue to tell me you can’t do it?? Too funny…

          3. I dont see anything in that regulation stating that you have to use an age verification system that is totally invasive to your customers, and who is opaque about what they do with their data gathered. You have for me at least lent credence to Steve, Brian, and others claims & concerns.
            Regards,
            Ray W.

          4. Selling to minors is a huge concern to the FDA. Age verification is a necessary part of remaining compliant with the regulations, and the fines for infractions are very steep. If you delve deeper into the language of the law, you will find some strict language regarding age verification. We’re not the only ones forced to use age verification.

            Thanks for your input.

  8. You don’t have to give out ssn at a local store. I believe this requirement will lose a LOT of customers. Just lost me, unless you make your prices ridiculously cheap the local store is now more convenient, less hassle, and feels more secure.

  9. Can Indiana residents order from Mt baker now? I don’t mind the verification part just making sure I can legally order living herr

    1. Hi Andrew,

      I’m not aware of any limitations in Indiana. You should be able to order in Indiana with your verification. Thanks.

  10. I don’t have texting/messaging on my phone! I won’t be able to receive an SMS code.
    Is there an alternative, like voice?

    1. I’m currently deployed but would like to stock up my supply at home for my return. My cell is turned off so I’m in the same boat…..are there other options?

    2. We do not have a voice alternative at the moment, but we are working on an alternative that will work via email. Thank you for your patience as we get adjusted to this new system!

  11. BlueCheck does not work. I am 55 years old, own my own home and have lived here for 15 years. I have been a satisfied customer since MBV opened. I have tried the verification process at least 10 times now. It does not think I am old enough to purchase e-juice. I am done trying to convince a faulty program who I am. I will not send my name, birthdate, drivers license picture, SSN or phone number to a company that cannot figure out who I am by now just to purchase e-juice.

    1. It doesn’t work for me either. I don’t have a computer, I have an iPad. So what is MBV going to do about blue check?

      1. Re: Samuel Williamson says: August 8, 2016 at 9:34 am. It doesn’t work for me either. I don’t have a computer, I have an iPad. So what is MBV going to do about blue check?

        ** I used my iPad to go through the age verification process, just as I use my ion to place online orders with MBV. **

    2. Tom, we apologize for the inconvenience. We have had some technical difficulties with the system so far but we are working to get these addressed as soon as possible. Please know that once you have been verified once on your account, you will no longer need to be verified again as long as you use the same account. It is a cumbersome process but we must implement this verification to ensure that we will be able to continue serving our customers for years to come.

      1. Hey Kenny. FYI… I live in Washington so, according to Ted Marple, it will be an “everytime” ordeal. I also know not every vape store is using BlueCheck. There are many age verification systems out there that comply with federal regulations. Pick one that works.

    3. I am not affiliated with any company mentioned in this blog. I did find the following information on BlueCheck today: “UPDATE: We will be working through the weekend to get everyone up before Monday. Please bear with us as demand has been overwhelming. Thank you.” Sounds to me that any company used is getting bombarded by countless vapors trying to get this process done. As for me, I was sent two text messages within the same minute. These contained two different 4-digit verification codes. I tried both, only the second one worked. From this, I assume their server was overloaded, perhaps. Source: https://www.bluecheck.me

      I hope this helps.

      1. Hi Danae,

        I’m sure Bluecheck like most online e juice providers are experiencing heavy traffic today with the new FDA Regulations! We’re sorry about any inconvenience you’ve experienced with our new system.

          1. Correct. They are not the provider. They are just the company that provides the age verification.

          2. They also give out our personal information. Here is their privacy policy with a few notes pointing out where it is in their policy to allow them to do this.

            Directly from BlueCheck Website. Disclosure information w/areas of concern and notes.

            Disclosure of Your Information
            We may disclose aggregated information about our users, and information that does not identify any individual, without restriction.

            Note: Here is where they give out our personal information to advertising agencies and vendors for commercial purposes.
            “We may disclose personal information that we collect or you provide as described in this privacy policy:
            • To our subsidiaries and affiliates.
            • To contractors, service providers and other third parties we use to support our business.”

            • To a buyer or other successor in the event of a merger, divestiture, restructuring,
            reorganization, dissolution or other sale or transfer of some or all of BlueCheck, Inc.’s assets, whether as a going concern or as part of bankruptcy, liquidation or similar proceeding, in which personal information held by BlueCheck, Inc., about our Website users is among the assets transferred. (This is understandable)
            • To fulfill the purpose for which you provide it.
            • For any other purpose disclosed by us when you provide the information.

            With your consent. We may also disclose your personal information:
            • To comply with any court order, law or legal process, including responding to any government or regulatory request.
            • To enforce or apply our terms of use found at http://www.bluecheck.me/tos and other agreements, including for billing and collection purposes.
            • If we believe disclosure is necessary or appropriate to protect the rights, property, or safety of BlueCheck, Inc., our customers or others. This includes exchanging information with other companies and organizations for the purposes of fraud protection and credit risk reduction.

            Choices About How We Use and Disclose Your Information
            We strive to provide you with choices regarding the personal information you provide to us. We have created mechanisms to provide you with the following control over your information:

            Note: If you don’t want your internet usage tracked by advertising agencies, here is where they want you to make changes to your browser that most people do not know how to do and this info is hard to find since it is no where except here in their privacy policy. Of course if you do this, you will always fail the age verification process. I finally figured out this was why I was always failing. I enabled tracking of cookies (this is how your internet usage is tracked) and then it would let me order.
            • Tracking Technologies and Advertising. You can set your browser to refuse all or some browser cookies, or to alert you when cookies are being sent. To learn how you can manage your Flash cookie settings, visit the Flash player settings page on Adobe’s website. If you disable or refuse cookies, please note that some parts of this site may then be inaccessible or not function properly.

            Note: Here is their out when (not if) the companies they release our information to uses it for other purposes such as releasing our information to other companies for commercial purposes.
            •”We do not control third parties’ collection or use of your information to serve interest-based advertising. However these third parties may provide you with ways to choose not to have your information collected or used in this way. You can opt out of receiving targeted ads from BlueCheck, Inc. Privacy Policy 6 members of the Network Advertising Initiative (”NAI”) on the NAI’s website.”

            Data Security
            We have implemented measures designed to secure your personal information from accidental loss and from unauthorized access, use, alteration and disclosure. All information you provide to us is stored on our secure servers behind firewalls. Any payment transactions will be encrypted using SSL technology.
            The safety and security of your information also depends on you. Where we have given you (or where you have chosen) a password for access to certain parts of our Website, you are responsible for keeping this password confidential. We ask you not to share your password with anyone.

            Note: After working in the field of IT and Network security for over 22 years, this is the most accurate information on their entire site and my whole reason for NOT sending personal information across the internet. Especially since they also fully admit they release our personal information to other affiliates and subsidiaries, contractors, service providers and other third parties they use to support their business.
            “Unfortunately, the transmission of information via the Internet is not completely secure. Although we do our best to protect your personal information, we cannot guarantee the security of your personal information transmitted to our Website. Any transmission of personal information is at your own risk. We are not responsible for circumvention of any privacy settings or security measures contained on the Website.”

          3. PS… I am already getting spam from BlueCheck and their affiliates. My order just went through last night.

          4. Toms post clinched it for me I’m afraid. I will not do business with any company using this “Bluecheck” crap.

      2. Thanks for posting this information. I placed an order last night, and got the same thing =-2 text messages on top of each other (my notification tone did not finish on the first before the notification sounded for the second), both time stamped with the same time, each with a different code. I used the second one and had no problem completing my order. I have noticed that several other eliquid sites that I get emails from are also using Blue Check as of today, so I think you are correct – they are getting overwhelmed. I did call MBV this morning to let them know about the double texts, and they stated that if they start getting more customers with this issue they will be looking into it. Since I am in California, I had already made several purchases from MBV since they started using Blue Check to verify age in California, and have not had any problems or issues, other than the double texts last night.

        1. No problem Gloria. We are working with BlueCheck to get the bugs out of the system. They’ve been overwhelmed with the coming changes and influx of new manufacturers trying to get compliant. Thanks for the good feedback. Its information like this that will improve the checkout experience for everyone!

          1. If BlueCheck is such a sketchy and untested application for what you knew would be a HUGE influx of customers, and it was inevitable it would crash, why did you choose it in the first place? Who makes up your IT consulting (NOT company) team, or do you have one? Get one ASAP, and until this is solved, phone orders only! It might take a little longer to process orders, but your customers would understand..rather than walk away :/

  12. This is all so absurd. This is the nightmare the founders and writers of our US Constitution feared. Unbelieveable regulation of every minutia of our lives. A real perversion/corruption of the purpose of Government.

  13. Dear Mt Baker Vapor and readers,

    I don’t know if this is the right place to share this, but if any of you have the inclination, please sign and share this petition to drop the 40% tax that threatens to kill the vaping industry in PA and makes ordinary buyers “unlicensed importers” (for which we face heavy fines and/or jail time if we don’t pay the 40% tax). Note that this tax is retroactive, so vape shops (and individuals) owe money on inventory they’ve already purchased. https://www.change.org/p/pa-house-of-representatives-amend-pa-hb-1198-40-vape-tax/c

    While this is currently going on in Pennsylvania, California is also facing the risk of similar legislation, and vapers in Indiana and Utah are already under strict limitations. Some online shops will no longer ship to these states. Yours could be next.

    This can, and will, happen elsewhere. Vape shops and individual vapers will be crushed under unrealistically high taxes, bans, and oppressive punishments unless vapers take action and make their voices heard.

    Thanks to anyone who signs, shares, and helps out in any way.
    Follow CAASA for updates and alerts on current and proposed legislation that threatens vapers’ rights: http://cqrcengage.com/casaa/home

    1. Hi Blue,

      I saw something about the PA law last week. Unrealistic is the key term. You are correct, this will effect us all. Thanks for sharing the links and keep up the good fight!

    1. Hi Colby,

      Sorry about that. The good news is once your verified through your account you don’t have top register again (unless you’re in California or Washington).

  14. So sad. Just getting started with your company too.
    I will not be giving any information to any online 3rd party to verify my legal right to spend my money.
    I know this is not your fault and you have to comply but I will have to find a local face to face supplier in Tucson now. Maybe one day you’ll have a store here.

    1. Hi Christy,

      We’re sad to see you go. The SS and Age Verification are part of the new FDA Deeming Regulations. It is a requirement to be compliant. We appreciate your understanding and hope to have the opportunity to serve you in the future.

      1. NO it is NOT. This is a bald-faced LIE. The ONLY thing the new regs say is you must get photo ID from anyone under 27. There is nothing about using a third-party system. MBV could verify customers IDs themselves in special circumstances if they wanted to but obviously, they’d rather lose business.

        1. Unfortunately, MBV already has data on anyone who has previously ordered. If anyone here reading has an account with them, go in and delete your info until this is sorted out. A choice this poor could be followed by a second. :/

      2. I have read the new FDA Regulations. MBV… I pointed out your misinformation as such as what Steve has pointed out. I pointed out other options you have that follow the new regulations. You are not required information such as your SSN. You do not need to verify persons over 27 (I’m 55 and BlueCheck cannot verify my age) and you do not need to use a third party vendor for age verification.

        FYI.. After a little investigating I also found you need to do your complete research first before you buy, meet only the specific needs and remember to read all the information on how these third party vendors will use your personal information and you would have seen they (or contractor, affiliate etc) use your information for other commercial purposes.
        A WARNING TO ALL PERSONS WHO USE BLUECHECK FOR AGE VERIFICATION: You are choosing to use a company that requires much more information then is required by the new FDA regulations while at the same time also gives out our personal information to other third party vendors, contractors, affiliates etc. This has been verified and is posted on their privacy page as I quoted above.

        1. Thank you for doing your homework. Blue sounded hinky to me simply for wanting my SS#. I’m 62 years old. My photo drivers license and my selfie holding it should be sufficient to send to MBV – NOT a third party who would have the right to share my info with whomever they choose. If I were going to buy alcohol , or buy cigarettes my drivers license would be sufficient. That is ALL our MBV should need and all that I will provide. Anything else is a potential danger and an invasion of my privacy.

          MBV, PLEASE check that out with your attorneys and contact me when I may order again using that information only. I have LOVED your company for nearly 3 years of excellent service. I’m disabled and it can be difficult to have to go to stores. We were a great pair! Couldn’t you record our Skype conversation showing our face and drivers license number? It would be helpful for seniors.
          I’m truly saddened to have to discontinue using MBV :(. I look forward to hearing that you will no longer be using BlueCrap and that you will personally be handling my personal information.
          Waiting to read your tweets.
          ” sunlover28″.
          Deborah M.

  15. To add to Steve and Omar’s posts, international costumers that order from Central and South America as well as the Caribbean often don’t use their international destination address because many of these countries don’t have good postal services and items just get lost or arrive in 6 months time. Instead we use addresses or PO Boxes (usually in Miami) that belong to “Mail Forwarding Companies” which specialize in providing costumers from Latin America with quick and reliable delivery as well as tricking US retailers that don’t normally ship international by having a “dummy” US address. So the costumer/order is actually international, but the address he ships to is within the US.

    I do not know if this applies to a large portion your International costumers, but I know myself and by the sound of it Omar and Steve are affected.

    1. Hi Martin,

      I was informed that because of the new FDA Deeming Regulations using “Mail Forwarding Companies” are now prohibited. We apologize for any inconvenience.

      1. Can you tell if the Billing address must now match the shipping address within the new process, or can billing and shipping differ like before?

      2. Another LIE. If not, simply post the relevant section of the FDA Deeming Regulations that say mail forwarding companies are now prohibited…

  16. I don’t believe that social security number is a requirement of the deeming regulations (at least I don’t see it listed as a requirement). Driver’s license has been a standard ID for many years, as has picture ID with birthdate, or birth certificate. I have even used a voter registration card (although since I’m now older than dirt, I never get “carded” anymore). If companies are banding together to challenge the FDA, I think they should also create a joint identity registration program. I will never give any part of my social security number to a privately held security enterprise, and thank goodness other vape vendors are asking for alternate means of ID. I’ll use the least intrusive vendors from now on.

    1. You are exactly right…MBV is lying and blaming all this on FDA regs when those regs say retailers must see photo ID from anyone under 27. There is NOTHING about using a third-party service, there is NOTHING about a SS number. MBV can verify customers ages from photo ID and credit card but they refuse to put out the little bit of extra time/effort that might take. Much easier/cheaper just to say ‘use this service’ or go somewhere else. So, looks like DIY juice for me from now on.

      1. Where are you going to purchase your DIY products? I believe that flavors can no longer be sold as well as VG w/ nicotine. This government overreach has gotten out of control! 😤😡

    2. An SSN or any part of it is NEVER required for product purchases of any kind. It is ONLY required for banking transactions, and any other SECOND form of ID is required–which is often a Public Records disclosure (purchase of a vehicle, marriage license, etc) or a contractual agreement (mortgage, rental agreement, credit cards or payment plans,
      etc). NEVER disclose your SSN or any part of it–especially not for a transaction of this nature. KEEP YOUR INFO SAFE!

  17. I have been asking for two days to see exactly WHERE in the new FDA regs is says MBV must use a third-party service to age verify. WHERE it says MBV can’t age verify off a photo ID and credit card. WHERE it says we must give part of our SS# to a third party to be age verified. Until you can provide documentation on your claims or at the least, answer the questions on age verification without just saying ‘it’s the new regs’ I won’t buy into this.

  18. I don’t use a cell phone… At age 67, I’m not highly motivated to give up all of the personal information that BlueCheck requires… Until there are changes to your age verification process, I’ll be taking my vaping business elsewhere…

    1. Hi Elizabeth,

      We are sorry you had an unpleasant experience. BlueCheck was added because Age Verification is now required by the new FDA Deeming Regulations. The Regulations went into effect yesterday and is required of all e liquid manufacturers/sellers. We apologize for the inconvenience.

      1. This was not really an ‘inconvenience’… I simply visited a different e liquid manufacturer/seller yesterday where I didn’t need to give up any personal information besides my date of birth (which they already had on file)…

        1. BINGO!!!! Amazing how the one competitor I use for hardware hasn’t changed a thing. They too have my info from previous orders and it was no problem at all. Too bad MBV has some really bad lawyers that are reading way too much into this law and then asking MBV to lie to all of us to cover the fact they don’t want to be bothered by people in special situations.

        2. Where are you going to purchase your DIY products? I believe that flavors can no longer be sold as well as VG w/ nicotine. This government overreach has gotten out of control! 😤😡

        3. May I ask who you used and if they are as good as MBV? It would save me a lot of time and energy. Thank you very much.

      2. Blue Check…Blue Check…..don’t you see the problem?

        Do you or one of your family members own Blue Check? Why are you letting them destroy your business? Why are you using a company that practices age discrimination ( people over 50 are having a problem getting verified )?

        1. As a leader in the industry and as responsible manufacturers, MBV has decided to get in front of future regulations in an attempt to keep our products out of the hands of minors. Although federal law does not require photo ID verification for online retailers, states such as California and Washington do require photo identification. For a streamlined way to verify our customers are not minors, we have implemented Blue Check nationwide to meet the eventual requirements of the Federal Government. If you are having any problems please email us at: support@mtbakervapor.com or them at: help@bluecheck.me and we will help guide you through the process! We are looking at other options currently moving forward!

  19. so a copy of a government issued id with a pic and date of birth (drivers license) is all that should be needed. not the last 4 of my SSN.

    I have never been asked forthe last 4 of my SSN when buying Alcohol. Drop that part and I am ok with your process.

    Why do you need the SSN anyway? Please answer this question you can verify age with out it.

    1. This is how BlueCheck does the age verification. It helps verify you in case the ID was fake. I do apologize that we have to do this. If you are not in CA, you only need to verify once unless your state laws change.

      1. You can you please explain the process for this? Do they have a contract will the DMVs in all fifty states, or are they relying on a database provided by a third party? How are they protecting this information?

        How are they verifying my drivers license number is not a fake? Are they using an OCR system (which may not work will all card backgrounds) which requires that they store the image, or is crowd sourced? Where is the data kept – on-site or in a cloud provider? What encryption algorithm and strength are they using to protect the data, if any?

        Has your legal representation apprised you of all of your responsibilities to prove due diligence on your part? Do they even know what your liability under comonwealth/state and federal status is?

  20. I’m following this blog. This means that I can see all new posts via email. I know that consumers (we) are losing more and more of their privacy each time we make an online purchase or fill in an application for something (or use our credit cards locally). The credit card companies also share some of our information. We have the option to “Opt Out” of any new credit card offerings for up to 5 years. Banks and other federally funding entities may require a letter stating we do not wish to share or receive anything from 3rd party vendors, but this does not exclude the bank and its inner associations. I am simply trying to remind *some, not all* people that privacy has been a longstanding issue by millions of people, and it seems to be a difficult (if not impossible) issue to squash UNLESS we only make cash purchases, keep our money under our mattresses, not apply for any government funded or federally regulated programs, close all bank accounts, pay off any mortgages, not show our identification or tax return when applying to rent an apartment or other living place, and the list just keeps growing every daggone day. Hackers are popping up everywhere. Robbers have the ability to find our stashes. I don’t mean to sound like an alarmist, but this is the way it is. Don’t get me started on identity theft. Argh.

    I suggest to everyone concerned about revealing their private information to this authorizing company (Blue) to take a moment, Google yourself. Chances are that you will be able to find yourself, names of relatives, the last 3-5 places where you have lived, if you voted or not, your registered party, your social security number (I actually found one website that freely displayed mine!), pictures of yourself, Google maps that show your car parked outside, and who knows what else. Obviously, there are many of us who have taken the time to implement various measures to protect ourselves—our privacy. I do the best that I can, but even I goof up.

    On a final note: if I have offended you, I am sorry. I am no smarter than anyone else here!

  21. Still waiting on the FDA Deeming Regulations that:
    1) Require a third-party service do age verification
    2) Restrict MBV from doing age verification themselves manually with credit card and ID.
    3) Restrict shipments to addresses other than a billing address associated with the credit card.
    4) Require any part of my SS#
    5) Require a cell phone number (or e-mail)
    6) Require age verification for anyone under 27
    7) Require me to give my private info to a third party I don’t know. And after reading their privacy police, one I wouldn’t trust with my info anyway.
    8) Prohibit retailers from selling to known over 18+ clients (unless MBV think I began buying from them when I was 15).
    With no answers to any of these questions and no text from an actual law that states anything close to what MBV is claiming, what am I to believe?

    1. They cannot, with all honesty, answer your questions without looking bad for not doing their research. I have went over the new regulations. I deal with contracts everyday so I kinda know what to look for. Everything you posted above from 1-8 are correct in that the requirements are not in the regulations. I would suggest MBV hire different lawyers to actually read the law and make recommendations that will comply with the law as written. Not some abstract interpretation that goes way above and beyond the restrictions the law calls for.

    1. We do have some retailers throughout the U.S. If there are any near you, you can see if they will contact us and we can get them setup in wholesale.

    2. WHO? Mail order? No SS# required? Same quality? Same price? Same deals? I’d appreciate your help. Unfortunately, we seniors have been getting shafted left and right. No cost of living raise in 2 years because- get this- they don’t take the cost of food and gas into consideration because it’s not fixed and can vary. Wth? 1 organic apple cost $1.75 !!! A gallon of organic mild is $4.99 ! A small loaf of gluten free bread is $5.00 – I feel like I’m living in Bizaro Land!

  22. just as a general thought – i have often wondered if checking id’s / checking birthdates for those buying tobacco products was more of a covert government operation to see who is utilizing these products so they can make either (thinking positively) a research list to see who gets cancer or (thinking negatively) to report to hospitals, insurance companies, etc. who is utilizing these products. that’s the cynic in me, i suppose. at any rate, i think it’s foolish to require this to this extent for e-liquid, but then again, maybe they’re doing some “research” into e-liquid’s long-term effects, etc. who knows, but i have always found it slightly questionable, at best. like, don’t they just need your birth year unless you’re just turning “of age?” just my general thoughts on the matter!

    1. No, the overall FDA guidance is not more than a poorly veiled attempt to destroy the majority of the vaping business so that only the large tobacco companies will be left standing (and provide later employment for FDA leadership). The FDA relies heavily on outside organizations to provide long-term monitoring/research for products such as are found in the vaping arena (which may or may not involve tobacco).

      But that still does not absolve MBV from choosing a poor method/company to comply with the age verification requirement, regardless that the overall requirement set is ridiculous.

      1. oh i totally agree. at its base, this all comes down to the fact that the government makes a sh!itload of $$$$$ from big tobacco. honestly, to me, the most reasonable way around this would be to tax the vaping industry as well – i wouldn’t mind paying a tax to keep things not only going but to ensure vaping’s even short-term future. i also agree that i’m not particularly fond of the “age verification system” – VERY UNHAPPY i have to take a “selfie” with my id when i’m in my damn 30’s….

  23. does this not seem like a covert government research operation?! and to freely give out your ssn isn’t something most people are willing to do anyway. and wtf … you don’t have to do this if you’re not in this country?? add this to the list of reasons i need to move as soon as i possibly can…. at any rate, i’m glad i’m not 27 or younger anyway … that’s just insanity. i could rant on and curse a lot but that won’t do me any good … so for now, i have nothing more to say than if you guys need any assistance or if there is ANYTHING i CAN do, PLEASE contact me directly – i am an advocate for all kinds of things, so fighting “the man,” as it were, is not new to me. i know there’s only so much one person can do, but i’m 100% sincere in my offer.

  24. I did a cursory check of the company storing our SSNs, and it appears to be associated with GoDaddy. The SSL report came back with a grade of A, at least for their primary and secondary servers (they may utilize other servers as well). I don’t usually deal with small startups for sensitive data, but their setup seems (in my not exhaustive analysis) secure. Their terms of use are another matter. I had a bad experience with an online cigarette vendor in the bad old days, and realized that my personal consumption habits had been sent to my state of residence. Their terms were similar to these, so I’m not taking a chance on this going forward.

    1. Sorry but I can’t let this one go by.

      One of the questions is are they storing the SSNs or not, along with all of the other collected information. GoDaddy is their registrar and may be their web front end provider. I have no idea what a grade A SSL connection is/means, or how that grade was determined (or by whom) so it’s worthless in terms of making a risk decision. It’s like saying I’m a grade A driver.

      Myself and others have posted questions that MBV should have asked long before they engaged BlueCheck’s services. I also now have to wonder as Josh Hanna answered a question about CA/WA residents with “You will need to fill out a paper sent/will send you and send it back and then you only need to verify once.”, so if that is the case then how does that get around the state requirements that they couldn’t meet by doing all verification in house?

      1. That paper I was speaking about was for WA customers and not CA. CA have to age verify every time. That is their laws.

  25. So I am a resident of Washington I saw in an earlier comment that if you live in California or Washington you have to keep on verifying your information over and over again is this really the way it’s going to be?

    1. We had to cut out some products and the 236 mL bottle was one of them, unfortunately. We did have to raise the price a little. If you buy the 10 pack of 30 mLs then the price change is 2 cents per mL. I do apologize for this.

      1. what 10 pack are you talking about? i see no 10 pack on the site, just full priced 30ml and nothing is in stock… what is up with MBV

        1. We were offering 10 packs but they were messing up our inventory system so we had to take them down for the time being.

          1. I ordered a 10-pack on Aug. 4th. Still have not received a shipping notification on my order. Any idea on when it will ship?

          2. We did switch the orders that have been waiting from awaiting shipping to awaiting fulfilment to correct the issue. We are hoping to have all of those orders out today. Warehouse gave us a time frame of by the end of the week.

  26. I’ve been with MBV for a few years now, and as much as I love your products, there is no way I’m giving out this kind of personal information to a third party to continue as your customer.
    Other vendors are using far less invasive methods to verify age, and so can you.

    There are online companies that will, for the price of a membership, allow you to plug in anyone’s name and address, and you will be shown a fair amount of their information, including age. This would only take a moment, when an order comes in.

    I trust very few online retailers with my credit card, so I am certainly not going to trust some third party with my SSN.
    That said, I do trust YOU, obviously. If YOU are doing the verifying, then maybe.

    Most people know better than to share this kind of information. Really, you’d have to be some kind of idiot to blindly trust a third party this way.

    Unless this changes, I’ll have to take my business elsewhere.

    1. I do apologize for us having to do this and I do understand the worry behind personal security. We had to implement something that would make sure we did not get fined. This is the best option to protect us and also be compliant with the regulations. I hope one day we can take this age verification system down and make it a lot easier.

      1. fast and best option for you yes but, problem for a lot of us customers is that your choice of provider is not one of the best age verification provider choice you could of made to ‘protect’ us! there are ‘established’ verifiable age verification providers that you & other vendors who are using this startup comp bluecheck could of chosen instead but, did not. For example, giantvapes’ age verification provider is a verifiable and established company, this puts me at ease and therefore i personally will buy from them if need be.. simple solution for you guys is to rid of bluecheck and get an established verifiable age verification provider instead, you won’t lose the business of some of us customers that way.

        1. I second these statements. I was going to go ahead and give your caramel apple a shot even though you had removed all the options (something you actually didn’t have to do for another two years if I read the federal douchebag administrations bs regs right) but this age check company is a complete NOPE!. No way in hell am I willingly giving ANY part of my SSN online. As a person above stated, there are much less invasive better established age verification services. Out of respect for MBV I won’t give the vendors names that I have switched to for ejuice, but I don’t have to use my SSN for either one.
          Regards,
          Ray W.

          1. As much as I will miss my 2-3 years dealing with MBV exclusively, I will have to also pass because of the SSN requirement. I will gladly come back when that is no longer required or it is in MBV’s hands only but I don’t trust a third party as well. There own policy is giving them rights to give our SSN and other info out…I can’t handle that. Farewell MBV you will be missed. 🙁

          2. Michael, I understand your concerns. All I can do is assure you BlueCheck isn’t doing anything nefarious with your information. We’re just trying to be proactive about these regulations.

            Thanks for your input and patience through this transitional period.

          3. Raymond, I completely understand your position on putting information online. All I can do is assure you BlueCheck doesn’t do anything nefarious with the last 4 digits of your Social Security Number. Keep in mind: this is a transitional period, and change always comes with a bit of friction. With time, we’ll be able to smooth out the bumps along the road.

            Thank you for your patience!

  27. Please let us know when you figure out an alternative. I have about 150mls left to go through and will need to reorder sometime this month.

    I refuse to give any part of my SSN to this company.

  28. I am sorry but I must leave too. SSN is the problem. The customer who gets from you is my 68 year old mother. I will have to shop elsewhere. I am sorry you had to mess up bad. We trusted you and been buying for 2+ years. Now I got to go elsewhere. All you had to do was allow us to DIRECTLY communicate with you with a selfie of the customer with their ID. Sorry, with the day of massive data breaches I cannot trust that will be “stolen.”

  29. Unfortunately I too will be leaving MBV due to the fact that they are using BlueCheck.

    There are many ways in which you can verify a persons age without having to give that much information to a company that at best makes it extremely difficult to find any information with regard to how your data is protected and what it is used for once they have it. I have made many online purchases where age verification is required and never have I had to hand over that much personal information to one company.

    Until such time as BlueCheck discloses how they protect my information and what if anything they will do with that information I will be purchasing local. Entrusting a company I know nothing about with that much personal information has too many risks in the unknown. I for one prefer to err on the side of caution.

    MBV chose the easy route by stating “It’s The Law” and handing over age verification to a third party which IMO will hurt MBV in the long run. They could have done a little more homework with regard to our concerns about personal data collection and protection.

    I loved doing business with MBV over the years and loved their products, but they will have to come up with another less intrusive method of verifying age to get me back.

  30. Tim we would like to believe you, but in this day & age we have to protect ourselves and BlueCheck just does not seem to be a company that we can trust. Myself and others have asked a lot of questions on their corporate policies and technical solution and we have not had any answers. Josh’s refusal to understand that the BlueCheck verification regimen is an extreme over-response to the FDA over-reach isn’t helping matters.

  31. Tim Mechling… You have made several statements now stating that “All I can do is assure you BlueCheck doesn’t do anything nefarious with the last 4 digits of your Social Security Number.” That is a pretty blanket statement so how do you know this? Do you now or ever worked for them? Their websites privacy policy states they give out our information to others (the list is above). It does not say they are only giving out partial information. They are a pretty new company with bad privacy policies and a lot of complaints not only from this blog, but across the internet on their business policies.

  32. The only thing I have to complain about with BlueCheck is the fact that they admit to giving out our personal information to many other businesses. I do not like spam. I do not like my information going out to others. Especially when I do not know who they are sending it to. I tested their policies and found them to be true. I created a brand new email account for using BlueCheck purchases after reading their privacy policy. Within 4 days after I made an order of e-juice I started getting spammed by other businesses. Some of which have nothing to do with tobacco products or vaping stuff but most are. That email account has not been used for any other purpose except to make one purchase from MBV.

    Results: You are (via BlueCheck) giving out our personal information. This is very, very bad business practice unless you do not care about your customers. Chose another company or change your verification policy so you do your own age verification checks. If you did your own, I would not have had such an issue with me being verified as over 21 since I am 55 and I would not be getting spammed after 4 days from the business you chose to use.

  33. so here’s my question – i’m definitely NOT 27 or younger … so why does the age verification thing keep asking me for a “selfie” with my id in it?! i’m not very happy about this, to say the least. i know it’s not mt. baker vapor who is at fault, but how do i rectify this issue?

  34. MT Baker Vapor use to be on the top of it’s game, it’s automatically shot down… A lot of customers are apparently leaving MT Baker Vapor, such as myself and I’ve been a customer for almost 2 years, spending hundreds. Pathetic. I hope you all love your order totals now, and loss of business all due to BlueCheck Verification. Quality has gone to shit, you never know how your ejuice is gonna arrive, and BlueCheck verification now?

    Pissed Customer.

  35. Spam?!

    This is very odd, every since I ordered, which was last night I have been getting spam emails such as “Male Enhancement”, “Summer Specials!”, “Get Cash NOW!”. Thank you for using BlueCheck Verification where they apparently don’t sell information. /sarcasm

    Now my inbox is being filled with that type of spam, NOT COOL! Choose your verification providers wisely, MTBAKERVAPOR or do you sell emails too?

    1. I have personally verified that BlueCheck does give out our personal information. Just check their privacy policy. They don’t hide it.
      Here is the statement in their privacy policy:
      “We may disclose personal information that we collect or you provide as described in this privacy policy:
      • To our subsidiaries and affiliates.
      • To contractors, service providers and other third parties we use to support our business.”

      And yes. I started getting a bunch of spam right away in an account that was setup just for a MBV purchase because of BlueCheck’s privacy policies. Glad I did and I won’t purchase anything else because of it and now I have to close that account. No need really for a spam testing account since I am only using it to find out if a company sells my info. Any other company I would want to research, I would have to create another new account that is not associated with any other company for true verification purposes.

  36. In awe of the continuous bombardment of ignorant comments SOME people have posted! When it comes to privacy, read the privacy notice of your electric bill, bank account, credit card, and so on and on and on. Many of the governmental sectors, public and and private companies that we use, share information. We can even look up if a person has voted! We, as consumers, have to jump through hoops to call and/or write that we do not want our information shared. And at no time is anyone legally allowed to share our social security number (SSN)! Rather, the last 4 digits in this case. When we apply for a job, we are required to show our ID and social security number to … who? Some stranger who works at the company. If you’re living in the United States, this is how our part of the world operates. When we fill out a tax return, we turn over sensitive information read by someone who is probably working part time. Lastly, for those ejuice companies not asking for partial SSNs, the ones that I have checked do NOT reveal where our information (name and date of birth) is being processed (who is confirming this information?).

    1. This is very true, and thank you for your support! Though it is smart to be guarded with your private information, we have to verify our identity sometimes. Job applications, rental agreements, credit checks, etc. all require identity verification. Luckily, BlueCheck is an ethical company that uses your information to help you, and not hurt you. Thank you, Not Ignorant, for your insights!

    2. In awe of people whom think they know better than others. Anyways, last reply on this blog, and I recently made my LAST order here. Good bye, Mt Baker Vapor. Enjoy your reduced sales, and customers.

  37. Keep me posted if anything changes I will have no problem sending a pic of me and my drivers license I will not give my ss# for ejuice

  38. Unfortunately I too will be leaving MBV. I understand that you have to comply with FDA regulations. BlueCheck is asking for information that I’m not willing to give out to a 3rd party. That has no real history that I can look at. I have been ordering from you since the DC Vapefest, but I will have to look at places in my area to find new e-juice flavor, hopefully I can find a flavor that’s as good as your Extreme Ice was. If you find a way to do age verification, without needing to give over my last 4 digits of my SSN let me know. I’ve enjoyed buying products from you. Does this also comply to purchasing replacement coils or is it just for e-juice?

  39. Seems to me a pic of a government-issued photo ID would be enough to comply with the regulations. Why should online vendors need to do more than their brick and mortar counterparts unless the regulations clearly say different?

    MBV is getting screwed twice over by paying this start-up company to provide age verification and by ticking customers off by requiring it.

    P.S. Hire a better lawyer!

  40. you just lost me as a faithful customer I don’t mind giving you all my other info I am 62 rears old if you can’t accept all my info plus the last 4 digits of my social security number than so be it I am not going to up load a photo of myself that’s absolutely absurd I was on another ecig site where I didn’t have to upload a photo of myself my info was good enough see ya

    1. Perhaps you could borrow a cell phone from a friend? As far as the digital photos, you could use a digital camera. If you have additional problems, feel free to contact our Customer Service department!

  41. I’m so sad about this, but I’ll have to find a new vendor, as well. I mostly wanted to tell you that if you would offer the alternative of using age verification at the other end (signature required upon delivery), I might be able to continue with MBV. I know that isn’t practical for everyone, but it would be a good alternative for those of us that will not put that much personal info online just to make a purchase… especially not when there are plenty of other vendors that aren’t requiring the SSN info.

    Please consider finding alternate ways to keep us as customers. We love your products and have loved doing business with you. You have been our ‘go to’ for several years now and I hate to lose you as ‘my’ vendor.

    I hope you do well and are able to weather this nasty storm!

    1. We would be sad to see you go. We have heard many points of difficulty with the system and are working with BlueCheck to improve the customer experience. For instance we are currently working on a solution that will allow customers to use their email to receive the sms verification codes. We are committed to improving our customer experience and appreciate this and all other feedback regarding the age verification systems. Your feedback is critical to helping us understand the difficulties caused by the age verification process. We hope you will check back as we work to improve your system.

  42. Just went to make an order and I am so not giving that much information to a unknown company, sorry but I hope you get this fixed.

  43. my question to MBV is a simple one why have you not simply chosen a different more established age verification system one that does not out right sell your information. I for one will not support a company that uses bluecheck. as others have said MBV could have done it in house I would be fine with that, or MBV can choose a better alternative https://veratad.com/ just to name one. correct me if I am wrong but does not autrize.net also do age verify, some even use the 6.00 usps adult signature required.

    1. We have looked at other providers, and BlueCheck is the one that integrates best with our back end of the website. I do apologize for the choices we have made and how it has made some of our customers irritated and put distrust for MBV in their eyes. I hope we can earn your business back in the future if or when we make changes. Please keep any eye out for any new improvements on our site.

      1. Josh,
        Thing is, you’re not going to earn back the business you’re losing unless you find a less invasive form of age check, one that doesn’t sell our (the customer) info.

        1. Exactly right, Raymond. This is simply all about money. Bluecheck is obviously the cheap solution. There are plenty of alternatives, including MBV doing it in-house. Until something changes, I am another customer you can strike off your list. If and when you get a proper solution in place, I will return.

  44. MtBakerVapor uses BigCommerce, and they allow for plugins, so they use BlueCheck Verification. However, what they fail to do is break away from BigCommerce to launch their own ecommerce website. There are MANY scripts available to do this, but they don’t TRULY don’t care about their customers.

    Ways that these companies will get your info:
    BigCommerce, they see all the data you input on your Mt Baker Vapor account such as: address, phone numbers, emails, and other info
    BlueCheck, they see your private info including address, phone numbers, emails, social security number, and they sell this info.

    Do not buy from Mt Baker Vapor while they still use BlueCheck Verification, my inbox is being spammed to hell still and they offered no resolution and simply said “We’re sorry, there’s nothing we can do about it.”

    Lame.

  45. While waiting for you to choose another, less invasive verification method, I have done some research into other vape vendors. Most are either using a reputable third party or are doing the verification themselves.

    Since you are staying with BlueCheck, I’ll be moving to a well known vendor who is verifying by Date of Birth, is offering large sizes and is still adding flavor shots if desired.
    Their Customer Service is handling verification. Why can’t you?

    I don’t want to take my business elsewhere because I do love your products, but… no.
    Thank you for years of great service and best of luck.

  46. MBV could be losing a LARGE population of customers. Many of us “baby boomers” don’t have a cell phone, or have one that is SMS capable (flip-phone). There needs to be an alternative method to verify ID, such as sending the SMS code to an email address. Telling people to “borrow a friend’s phone” is simply unacceptable. I really hope this issue gets resolved. As a longtime customer, I hate to see you go.

    1. Flip-phone receive text messages IF you have the plan. I do not want you to get the plan just for this, though. Bluecheck is working on an email system that way you can get your code via email too.

  47. I really don’t like “piling on”, BUT, I’m going to… (There is power in numbers they say.) When confronted with the BlueCheck screens, I backed out immediately, and sent MBV an email and opened a chat asking for a different way to verify. I was given the same scripted response. I said “sorry… goodbye!” There are many other vendors out there that use a non-invasive age verification system, and they are the ones that will get my business. I liked MBV, but am put off by their disingenuity! I won’t be back even if they change.

  48. I just wanted to state that I have decided not to purchase from MBV because I am not willing to give that much information to a third party without knowing how it will be protected and used. I have however purchased E-juice from 4 other vaping sites as a test to see how they each handle age verification. In each case I have been able to purchase E-juice without having to give the information BlueCheck requires for age verification. For MBV to state “It’s the Law” is simply not true when it comes to what information is required to verify age.

    Until such time as MBV changes how it verifies age I will be purchasing elsewhere.

    1. Thanks for your insights, William. The FDA hasn’t come down hard on any vape businesses just yet. I guess time will tell what vendors will be punished, and just how strict vape businesses have to be. In our case, better safe than sorry. As long as you keep vaping, we’re happy!

      1. I sought advice from the Social Security Administration regarding the use of my Social Security number, and learned that we are warned not to give any part of this number if it is not associated with US government services and agencies. The financial services sector can require it to verify income, but they must adhere to the strictest of standards and practices. We are further warned to obscure this number where it appears on other documents, such as Medicare cards and driver’s licenses. Therefore I doubt that the government will “come down hard” on companies that don’t require this breach of identity. It is more likely that BlueCheck will come under scrutiny for its business practices. Your implication that other vendors may be “punished” is not well received in this household. We, in fact, would rather be “safe than sorry” so will not go against the advice of our government in this matter.

          1. I don’t believe that a statement on Reddit from the CEO of a for-profit private company invalidates the instructions of the US government. I am not anxious, but put my own interests first. I am sorry your company has been impacted so greatly by these regulations, but believe you have not taken the best path to compliance for your customers.

  49. I don’t believe anything you do, link, or say will alleviate anyones anxieties over BlueCheck. Do you really expect anyone to believe the self-serving commentary on reddit? Not going to happen. The only thing that IS going to happen is you will continue to lose business over time to other vendors that are less invasive for as long as you continue to use BC. As Margaret Caulfield said “we are warned not to give any part of this number if it is not associated with US government services and agencies.” I have thankfully used a couple other vendors that don’t require SSN, although out of respect for your business, I wont state or even hint who they are. I will only say that there ARE other vendors if you look around.

    1. Federal law does not require photo ID verification for online retailers. 1140.16(c)(2)(i) and in paragraph (b)(2) of the deeming regulations stipulate that each retailer shall verify by means of photographic identification containing the bearer’s date of birth that no person purchasing the product is younger than 18 years of age. Mail order and “impersonal” modes of sale are exempt from this requirement, for now. With that in mind, this is the federal level and not the state level. California and Washington do require photo identification because their laws are more stringent. For a streamlined way to verify our customers are not minors, we implemented Blue Check nationwide to meet the eventual requirements of the Federal Government. As a leader in the industry and as responsible manufacturers, MBV has decided to get in front of future regulations in an attempt to keep our products out of the hands of minors.

  50. I order juice online weekly from small companies and large companies and never once have I had to do any of this, they never wanted a photo ID and expecially they never wanted the last 4 of my social security. I’ll no longer order from MBV

    1. Please know that while many other companies are not as stringent regarding age verification, Mt Baker Vapor has taken a zero-tolerance stance. We have the most rigorous age verification requirements because we are committed to a long-term business plan of being able to provide e liquid for our customers for years to come. With this in mind we have decided to follow Federal age verification requirements to the letter of the law.

  51. I have recently moved and my change of address has caused me not to be able to be verified with many ejuice vendors. I don’t have a camera to send a picture of my ID. I did recently change my address on my driver’s license but not sure if it has taken effect yet. Can I try to get verified before I order to see if it will go through?
    I love MBV and am a long time customer ….been ordering since you started out.

  52. Hey,

    I was just verified by BlueCheck, I live in CA. They only asked for my name, birthdate and a picture of my photo ID with my face in it. They didn’t ask for my social or anything like that. I understand the concern a lot of you have voiced on here but really? I’ve been ordering from MBV for almost 3 years, I trust them. I certainly don’t expect them to do all the hand verifying in house along with processing, filling and shipping all the orders. The people that are leaving, are the same people that would be b****ing about the order taking 3-5 days to process before even shipping. You do understand that would be the result if MBV decided to do all verification in house right? Not to mention the price increases to hire an entire new department for the purposes of verification.

    I’m a bit disappointed to be honest, that people on here who claim to have been loyal customers for years jump ship because they are terrified about a bunch of “what ifs”. I could understand if there were any reports or complaints from people that had actually used MBVs BlueCheck verification but almost everyone here is too afraid to try. Trust me, the porn site, Amazon, Apple, etc.. are all using similar if not more “concerning” privacy policies.

    I for one, have trusted Mount Baker for years and I don’t for a second believe they would use some fly by night company and put all of their loyal customers at risk. Not to mention the countless other sites that use them, the founder has been pretty good about public outreach, he even did a Reddit AMA a little while ago.

    While you are free to spend your money wherever you see fit, I find it extremely presumptuous that so many feel you are entitled to tell MBV or BlueCheck how to run their businesses. Both businesses have explained their reasoning for choosing to go above and beyond what the law says today, because it will most definitely change in the future.

    I just have to ask, how many of you disgruntled consumers and patriots voted for the very same representatives that wrote, championed and passed these laws?

    You can all hold out hope that the laws will get more relaxed. I’m much more cynical, we live in a surveillance state, a nanny state and a police state. The media is owned by 5 corporations who only care about profits. That’s why E-Cigarettes and Vaping have been demonized and smeared in a similar way to firearms. I hope you’re right, that these laws are just a phase and they’ll eventually be repealed but if history has shown anything it’s that things have always gotten worse before they ever get a little better.

    If you haven’t noticed, we live in an authoritarian plutocracy/oligarchy. Maybe it’s because I wholeheartedly believe in the Constitution and all of the Bill of Rights but the majority of this country sees fit to pick apart, ignore and surrender their rights and my rights without so much as a peep. All of you watch the corporate propaganda “news” and have brainwashed and conditioned to think the way you do. That’s why every policy, every law, etc.. is motivated by fear. You restrict my Second Amendment protected rights and are fine with blatant infringements of our 1st, 4th, 8th, 9th and 10th Amendment protections. Hell, why don’t you go and read the First through Tenth Amendments of the Bill of Rights, then tell me if any of that is true today.

    You should be much more concerned with Rule 41, the NDAA, the Patriot Act, Obama suspending Habeas Corpus and Posse Comitatus to arrest and indefinitely detain anyone, including journalists with out charging them, deploy the US military on US soil to police US citizens in time of peace. I really wish I bought all of this righteous indignation from all of these people criticizing MBV and BlueCheck but where are the cries of protest for your actual rights? Rights by the way, which were protected, not granted, by the US Constitution/Bill of Rights.

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